Interview with writer and author Shane Cashman of Timcast to discuss the allegations against Marilyn Manson, the #MeToo movement and our parallel political shifts
I have a lot to say but sometimes it’s hard to articulate all of it in this forum. It’s difficult to not get jumped on by people who feel differently. I hope what I’m about to say will make sense but if it doesn’t I apologize in advance.
I had wild nights of sex in my 20’s. I had sex when I didn’t really “feel” it. I agreed to things I didn’t really want to or maybe just didn’t actually feel comfortable with but did it anyway. I’ve woken up without clothes and bruised with my boyfriend laying there, and twice with a friend of mine. I’ve slept with ppl I wish I hadn’t bc I was under the influence and felt like it was a good idea in the moment.
The regret and shame afterwards can create all kinds of victims and falsehoods when you make bad decisions in your early adult life. All of those decisions, when I look back, I shutter and feel like thank God I made it through that. However, I think sometimes people, #metoo, are taking the shame and embarrassment and instead of owning responsibility and being accountable for these poor choices and growing from them we make victims. Because it’s easier to not take responsibility and be a victim or point the finger then it is to say wow I really effed that up and hopefully I don’t act like that again. Or fear of being labeled a whore when telling the story some kind of dance around truth and it can appear to others as rape.
I think a deeper conversation needs to occur. Women aren’t angels. Men aren’t devils. All women aren’t truth tellers and all men aren’t lying scum. I fear for my little nephew, my husband, my brother, and any other male in my life that at any time someone from their past could make an allegation and they will spend the next 30 years in prison with no chance to leave.
Thank you, I have a hard time writing how I think lol. I also don’t love to have strangers attack and I tend to get defensive and sarastic which doesn’t help me lol. I just watched the video of them and he explains it all perfectly. I appreciate both him and Jess being so open and encouraging speaking up.
Hey, thanks for sharing! So I wonder, did you ever say "NO"? I think that would be the difference between making a bad decision and being violated, in any situation. The problem is that when you are having wild sex, regularly, with the same person, or people it is hard to see the difference. You know each other. And you do all kinds of stuff. And then one day, you don't feel it anymore, and you say "NO". He carries on. Do you feel violated, 100% yes. Did they violate you, 100% yes. But did he hear you say no, did he know it was for real, maybe you role played... The issue is the boundaries we set, which we often don't think of setting until post facto. The issue also is our perception of the situation. The actions we take immediately after the violation. And the definition of rape itself. I agree more must be done, discussed and clarified. Children should have it hammered in by their parents. Young girls should be assured and encouraged to report those things. It should be easy to do so. No means no, and it is a violation when it is disregarded. I appreciate our society is not ready to make a clear cut and so the circumstances may be the most important factor to establish if the violator is also a rapist. That said no person who was violated should ever take the blame. There were two or more people in that situation, at the very least they should have stopped to clarify.
I started following this case after the Johnny Depp trial when I realized they were such good friends. The wheels started turning in my head how easy it would be to make MM into an evil guy when in reality is a persona. I agree with Shane that ERW has trauma that she probably never addressed and instead of fixing it, she uses it to play victim because she’s been so used to a camera in her face. I believe there was also rumors ERW and AH were in communication 👀
Completely agree with this. Thank you, Jess for continuing to share information with us that the mainstream media hides and twists. Praying for your peace and protection, as I know sharing what you share puts a target on your back! May you always feel the support of those of us who appreciate you!
I agree with Shane. I’m not a hardcore fan of MM but I do enjoy his music and I’ve never had an issue with him whatsoever and what kind of person he is and what he does offstage is his business. when I first heard about these allegations against him my initial thought was “A shock value musician who built his career on that persona is now being accused of rape, abuse, etc.? I’m not convinced. Seems too easy and convenient...” ever since the Amber/Johnny case, I’m forever skeptical. I had the exact same response to the allegations against Till Lindemann of Rammstein. “Oh, the frontman of a shock value German metal band is being accused of drugging and raping women? Hmmm...don’t know that I buy that, either.” Then it came out that the allegations were false and/or exaggerated later. I just think ERW is using her past relationship with Manson as a way to cash in on the Me Too movement, that’s all I’ve ever thought. There’s just something about all of this that doesn’t sit quite right with me. And of course, MM is an easy target and “looks the part” but that doesn’t mean I believe the allegations because the fact of the matter is, I don’t know the man behind the onstage persona and let’s face it, I and most others never will. I don’t think it’s fair to judge someone on their appearance/music/art because they might and could be someone entirely different behind closed doors. And even if MM, Till Lindemann, whoever else is into some freaky stuff in the bedroom or what have you, that doesn’t mean that they’re abusers or rapists. 🤷🏽♀️ Just my two cents.
Some of Manson’s exes have said that he was never a freak in bed and that he was actually very vanilla and loving... 🤷🏻♀️ people unfortunately cannot separate his public image from his personal life... it’s sad.
Evan Rachel Wood said that herself! She said this to Manzin, one of MM's friends and fans, "sorry to disappoint, but he's very vanilla!" when they were together. 🤷🏼♀️
Yes, exactly!! Just because his music/art is explicit doesn’t mean that’s who he is offstage. People would be shocked to find out that a lot of these artists are just normal, ordinary people like us. 😏
The strangest thing about that documentary (which itself is very strange) is that Amy Berg also directed a documentary about the West Memphis 3. She’s well aware of the power of moral panics, yet 100% hopped on this Manson case while the documentary provides really no proof of anything.
I love that you’re doing a podcast! I’ve always had a bad feeling about Evan Rachel Wood. Something wasn’t adding up. Shane confirmed some of those feelings for me.
Thank you so much Jessica👏🏻 you’re one of the few who are reporting on the Manson case and this case is one of the biggest hoaxes (imo) of the “me too movement”!
I am not a Manson fan but am a fan of truth and innocence before proven guilty. I worry about our world and appreciate your focusing on these controversial topics. Especially in protection of our boys and men. This can happen to any of them, our husbands, brothers, and sons.
(I have literally been checking substack constantly for several days waiting for my fix to come in. And knowing you were working on something good. Did not disappoint! Thank you!)
A decade ago, Wood was reported in a story by Jezebel to have left Bell because he wasn't into "very edgy" things like she was. What does "very edgy" mean to her? What she did with Manson? Back then she didn't accuse Manson of anything. It appears later when she began to feel "embarrassed" by what she had done before, she had to make excuses for herself by blaming Manson for it.
I’m not even a fan of MM. I could give a rip. But, Doe is offended that Manson attended her deposition? Women are so ridiculous. He has every right to be there and face his accuser. It also speaks volumes that he could look her in the face. The fact that she was uncomfortable is her problem as well as a tell.
Oh hell no, we were not friends. I was 10 years younger than him - he hung out with my brother a few times though (they were about the same age). Mostly just saw him at Eastwoods Park (the neighborhood hangout spot) and at the bridge near my house.
The things is one of the accusers recanted her allegations saying ERW manipulated her to lie, is now supporting Manson, she gave an interview about this and even made a legal declaration about this... so how are the allegations to be trusted when there’s a big contradiction like this? Not to mention they forged evidence to support their “abuse claims”... they’re mocking real victims it’s a shame!
You changed my mind! When this podcast popped up I thought ‘Manson? Weirdo, he deserves whatever is coming to, but it’s Jess so I’ll listen.’ Completely mind blown and now it’s like the Depo trial, I believed Amber until she completely jumped the shark. I hope it does go to trial and one day I hope false accusers face the same punishment the accused would have gotten if found guilty.
This was such a fascinating conversation and I paused it in the middle to go watch the Larry King/Manson interview. Wow. I haven't ever known much about him or the latest controversies but found myself curious. I love that OPEN DIALOGUE and scrutinizing narratives can bring so much entertainment and joy! Shane and Jess -- well done :)
We live in a weird timeline in which women are treated like children and children are treated like women.
I did too. I was intrigued by the fact that they are such close friends. Yes to all of this!
I have a lot to say but sometimes it’s hard to articulate all of it in this forum. It’s difficult to not get jumped on by people who feel differently. I hope what I’m about to say will make sense but if it doesn’t I apologize in advance.
I had wild nights of sex in my 20’s. I had sex when I didn’t really “feel” it. I agreed to things I didn’t really want to or maybe just didn’t actually feel comfortable with but did it anyway. I’ve woken up without clothes and bruised with my boyfriend laying there, and twice with a friend of mine. I’ve slept with ppl I wish I hadn’t bc I was under the influence and felt like it was a good idea in the moment.
The regret and shame afterwards can create all kinds of victims and falsehoods when you make bad decisions in your early adult life. All of those decisions, when I look back, I shutter and feel like thank God I made it through that. However, I think sometimes people, #metoo, are taking the shame and embarrassment and instead of owning responsibility and being accountable for these poor choices and growing from them we make victims. Because it’s easier to not take responsibility and be a victim or point the finger then it is to say wow I really effed that up and hopefully I don’t act like that again. Or fear of being labeled a whore when telling the story some kind of dance around truth and it can appear to others as rape.
I think a deeper conversation needs to occur. Women aren’t angels. Men aren’t devils. All women aren’t truth tellers and all men aren’t lying scum. I fear for my little nephew, my husband, my brother, and any other male in my life that at any time someone from their past could make an allegation and they will spend the next 30 years in prison with no chance to leave.
This! This is exactly how I feel. You couldn't have said it better.
Thank you, I have a hard time writing how I think lol. I also don’t love to have strangers attack and I tend to get defensive and sarastic which doesn’t help me lol. I just watched the video of them and he explains it all perfectly. I appreciate both him and Jess being so open and encouraging speaking up.
Hey, thanks for sharing! So I wonder, did you ever say "NO"? I think that would be the difference between making a bad decision and being violated, in any situation. The problem is that when you are having wild sex, regularly, with the same person, or people it is hard to see the difference. You know each other. And you do all kinds of stuff. And then one day, you don't feel it anymore, and you say "NO". He carries on. Do you feel violated, 100% yes. Did they violate you, 100% yes. But did he hear you say no, did he know it was for real, maybe you role played... The issue is the boundaries we set, which we often don't think of setting until post facto. The issue also is our perception of the situation. The actions we take immediately after the violation. And the definition of rape itself. I agree more must be done, discussed and clarified. Children should have it hammered in by their parents. Young girls should be assured and encouraged to report those things. It should be easy to do so. No means no, and it is a violation when it is disregarded. I appreciate our society is not ready to make a clear cut and so the circumstances may be the most important factor to establish if the violator is also a rapist. That said no person who was violated should ever take the blame. There were two or more people in that situation, at the very least they should have stopped to clarify.
This was so clearly explained! I totally agree. I have small nephews and I worry about the world they are growing into.
Thanks for covering the Marilyn Manson allegations. I hope more people start to pay attention.
I started following this case after the Johnny Depp trial when I realized they were such good friends. The wheels started turning in my head how easy it would be to make MM into an evil guy when in reality is a persona. I agree with Shane that ERW has trauma that she probably never addressed and instead of fixing it, she uses it to play victim because she’s been so used to a camera in her face. I believe there was also rumors ERW and AH were in communication 👀
Completely agree with this. Thank you, Jess for continuing to share information with us that the mainstream media hides and twists. Praying for your peace and protection, as I know sharing what you share puts a target on your back! May you always feel the support of those of us who appreciate you!
I agree with Shane. I’m not a hardcore fan of MM but I do enjoy his music and I’ve never had an issue with him whatsoever and what kind of person he is and what he does offstage is his business. when I first heard about these allegations against him my initial thought was “A shock value musician who built his career on that persona is now being accused of rape, abuse, etc.? I’m not convinced. Seems too easy and convenient...” ever since the Amber/Johnny case, I’m forever skeptical. I had the exact same response to the allegations against Till Lindemann of Rammstein. “Oh, the frontman of a shock value German metal band is being accused of drugging and raping women? Hmmm...don’t know that I buy that, either.” Then it came out that the allegations were false and/or exaggerated later. I just think ERW is using her past relationship with Manson as a way to cash in on the Me Too movement, that’s all I’ve ever thought. There’s just something about all of this that doesn’t sit quite right with me. And of course, MM is an easy target and “looks the part” but that doesn’t mean I believe the allegations because the fact of the matter is, I don’t know the man behind the onstage persona and let’s face it, I and most others never will. I don’t think it’s fair to judge someone on their appearance/music/art because they might and could be someone entirely different behind closed doors. And even if MM, Till Lindemann, whoever else is into some freaky stuff in the bedroom or what have you, that doesn’t mean that they’re abusers or rapists. 🤷🏽♀️ Just my two cents.
Some of Manson’s exes have said that he was never a freak in bed and that he was actually very vanilla and loving... 🤷🏻♀️ people unfortunately cannot separate his public image from his personal life... it’s sad.
Evan Rachel Wood said that herself! She said this to Manzin, one of MM's friends and fans, "sorry to disappoint, but he's very vanilla!" when they were together. 🤷🏼♀️
Yes, exactly!! Just because his music/art is explicit doesn’t mean that’s who he is offstage. People would be shocked to find out that a lot of these artists are just normal, ordinary people like us. 😏
The strangest thing about that documentary (which itself is very strange) is that Amy Berg also directed a documentary about the West Memphis 3. She’s well aware of the power of moral panics, yet 100% hopped on this Manson case while the documentary provides really no proof of anything.
I didn’t know this. Thanks for this detail, Jack.
100%
I love that you’re doing a podcast! I’ve always had a bad feeling about Evan Rachel Wood. Something wasn’t adding up. Shane confirmed some of those feelings for me.
Thank you so much Jessica👏🏻 you’re one of the few who are reporting on the Manson case and this case is one of the biggest hoaxes (imo) of the “me too movement”!
I am not a Manson fan but am a fan of truth and innocence before proven guilty. I worry about our world and appreciate your focusing on these controversial topics. Especially in protection of our boys and men. This can happen to any of them, our husbands, brothers, and sons.
(I have literally been checking substack constantly for several days waiting for my fix to come in. And knowing you were working on something good. Did not disappoint! Thank you!)
Oooh I like that, "[...] a fan of truth and innocence before proven guilty." well said!
A decade ago, Wood was reported in a story by Jezebel to have left Bell because he wasn't into "very edgy" things like she was. What does "very edgy" mean to her? What she did with Manson? Back then she didn't accuse Manson of anything. It appears later when she began to feel "embarrassed" by what she had done before, she had to make excuses for herself by blaming Manson for it.
I’m not even a fan of MM. I could give a rip. But, Doe is offended that Manson attended her deposition? Women are so ridiculous. He has every right to be there and face his accuser. It also speaks volumes that he could look her in the face. The fact that she was uncomfortable is her problem as well as a tell.
Was hoping you would cover this.
I grew up with Brian - I had a bad incident with him when I was around 10 years old. None of the allegations surprise me.
Really? You two were childhood friends?
Oh hell no, we were not friends. I was 10 years younger than him - he hung out with my brother a few times though (they were about the same age). Mostly just saw him at Eastwoods Park (the neighborhood hangout spot) and at the bridge near my house.
The things is one of the accusers recanted her allegations saying ERW manipulated her to lie, is now supporting Manson, she gave an interview about this and even made a legal declaration about this... so how are the allegations to be trusted when there’s a big contradiction like this? Not to mention they forged evidence to support their “abuse claims”... they’re mocking real victims it’s a shame!
I'm not saying that every person has a valid claim against Brian but from my own experience with him, I can believe some of the stories.
You changed my mind! When this podcast popped up I thought ‘Manson? Weirdo, he deserves whatever is coming to, but it’s Jess so I’ll listen.’ Completely mind blown and now it’s like the Depo trial, I believed Amber until she completely jumped the shark. I hope it does go to trial and one day I hope false accusers face the same punishment the accused would have gotten if found guilty.
This was such a fascinating conversation and I paused it in the middle to go watch the Larry King/Manson interview. Wow. I haven't ever known much about him or the latest controversies but found myself curious. I love that OPEN DIALOGUE and scrutinizing narratives can bring so much entertainment and joy! Shane and Jess -- well done :)