I’m still trying to bounce back from dragging exhaustion after hectic travel last week, combined with birthday and Halloween celebrations, so a podcast recap with Jaggyish last night felt like the easiest way to catch everyone up on some major trial developments.
So much to dive into here. I’ll be back in long form next week to pick back up.
Up Ahead: The Issue with Asia Argento + MeToo hyporcrisy + Black Cube + Harvey’s New York trial highlights + Harvey’s home life / Wife + a tour of the most frequently mentioned ‘scene of assualt’ (all the fancy Hollywood Hotel’s) + Examination of one major Maxwell trial connetor.
Transcripts are a trial feature here. Let me know your thoughts!
The Alan Jacksons
Bri:
Hi, Jess.
Jessica:
Are we live?
Bri:
Yeah, we are. We're on.
Jessica:
Hello.
Bri:
Where are we?
Jessica:
We are in a house in the Hollywood Hills.
Bri:
I know we're usually podcasting on the internet with blurry... I don't even know what your face looks like. You wear sunglasses on the computer and now we're on a couch in the Hills the night before another day at Harvey Weinstein.
Jessica:
And I just want to preface this with the fact that I am deliriously tired. I've been traveling nonstop. I don't even know how many flights in the last 10 days, but I am frazzled and exhausted. And I missed, what, five days of trial?
Bri:
I think you missed four.
Jessica:
Okay, so a lot?
Bri:
Okay, now five. Yeah.
Jessica:
Yeah. A lot happened in those days. So we're going to recap and go over some of the highlights and some of the major talking points, and also how many witnesses or how many... I think we've only had one Jane Doe.
Bri:
We've had one Jane Doe and two witnesses who they don't count as the jail time...
Jessica:
Character witnesses, right?
Bri:
Yeah. Character witnesses. So this is just the first week of trial.
Jessica:
And we need to talk about Harvey and what he's like in the courtroom.
Bri:
Yeah, we do. So last Monday was opening statements. Jane Doe One. She began her testimony with prosecution. But before Jane Doe One started, it was like a circus. It was a full house of reporters. It was Gloria Allred there with her bag that you were so fascinated by.
Jessica:
I just wanted to know what it was. It had no visible brand. I mean, she's a character. She has some kind of a vibe. And I was just like, who is this woman?
Bri:
And then Harvey was wheeled out. We were sitting in the benches with our new friend, Jennifer [inaudible 00:02:12]. And Jennifer had been to the pretrial and she was like, "Do you hear that noise? That's the sound of them sliding open his jail door." And we were like, "What the fuck?" And seconds later he was wheeled out in a wheelchair and they were moving him to a regular chair.
Jessica:
And he's much slimmer.
Bri:
I don't know that I would say slim. I'd say he looks like he has so much loose skin because he's starving.
Jessica:
Yeah, he looks frail.
Bri:
Exactly.
Jessica:
He's a frail version of the Harvey Weinstein that we know from his heyday.
Bri:
I don't think he's exaggerating when he says his body's deteriorating.
Jessica:
Oh no, I mean, he can barely stand, right?
Bri:
He can barely stand, yeah. His ankles seem like they're like mermaid legs.
Jessica:
And you know what's so interesting too is I did hear him. He's trying to whisper to his attorney, but his voice is so... It's such the Harvey Weinstein voice, it just carries through the whole courtroom even when he's whispering.
Bri:
It's majestic in a way. I'm sure he's exhausted, but his energy is still there. He's still very demanding. His lawyers very much are serving him.
Jessica:
He still is very intimidating. He likes to stare right at the gallery and the jurors. I mean, he will just turn around out of nowhere and just glare at the crowd or an individual. I'm scared of him, a little scared.
Bri:
I mean, I started being scared the other day, but mostly I feel like he just wants to know what the hell do we care about being there.
Jessica:
Well, I think he wants to read the whole room. He's used to being in charge. He leans back in his chair like he's going to host a meeting, and he's used to being the head of those deliberations and the deals. He was the guy.
Bri:
Yeah.
Jessica:
I mean, it doesn't get bigger than Harvey Weinstein, so I think he must miss that, right?
Bri:
Yeah. And then it's ironic because you see what a great job his attorneys are doing, specifically Alan Jackson, and you're like, Alan is performing every single day for Harvey.
Jessica:
His lawyers are incredible.
Bri:
Incredible. But it's such a metaphor because the court of law is the first stage that mankind ever really knew and Harvey gets to still direct and produce.
Jessica:
Yeah, the whole time I was like, oh, he's still putting on a show for us. They're like lawyers out of a movie, right?
Bri:
Right. Instead of Matt Damon, it's Alan Jackson.
Jessica:
He has slick hair, he has chiseled features.
Bri:
Hand gestures. Right. His back is so tight.
Jessica:
Chiseled, tailored. Yeah, tight back. You guys, we're in there for six to eight-
Bri:
And Alan Jackson's back's to me like 95% of the time. I can't help it but notice.
Jessica:
I was a little bothered by how tailored his suit is at the waist. It's kind of a...
Bri:
[inaudible 00:05:08]
Jessica:
We have fat jeans and we have skinny jeans and maybe some of his suits are skinny suits. I think all of his suits are skinny suits.
Bri:
But weight fluctuates, or do men not change?
Jessica:
I feel like after the Spacey Nantucket case, Alan Jackson was like, "I'm going to go shopping and get tailored suits for Harvey."
Bri:
[inaudible 00:05:28]
Jessica:
Totally different, yeah. Well, you have to explain why there's a connection there.
Bri:
So the connection right now is Alan Jackson, who is Harvey's lead defense attorney, was also Kevin Spacey's lead defense attorney in Kevin Spacey's Nantucket case, which Alan Jackson is so fucking magnificent in kind of an evil way where he got Spacey out of the entire trial during pretrial. Alan Jackson is such a good lawyer and is so convincing and so expressive and dramatic and emphatic that he convinced a judge during the pretrial of Kevin Spacey versus an 18-year old waiter at a restaurant through Snapchat that because this man deleted all the Snapchats, this 18-year old deleted all the Snapchats, that the trial just cannot go on.
Jessica:
Wait, Kevin Spacey was on Snapchat?
Bri:
All the gays are on Snapchat.
Jessica:
Kevin Spacey was-
Bri:
I mean, maybe not all the gays, but Snapchat is very niche to a certain kind of socializing.
Jessica:
I'm learning. I didn't know this.
Bri:
It's a great way to send nudes without...
Jessica:
Oh, because they disappear.
Bri:
Exactly. I hate Snapchat. I think Arlo's on it, but I can't go there.
Jessica:
I can't believe Kevin Spacey is trolling...
Bri:
Well, he was. I don't think he is anymore.
Jessica:
On Snapchat.
Bri:
Yeah.
Jessica:
All right.
Bri:
The photos of Alan Jackson in that case, it was only two years ago maybe, I could be totally wrong on that, but it was only in the last two years. Alan Jackson's like a different man. He's not as slim. He was in good shape, but right now he's chiseled. And with Kevin Spacey, he had a full beard. He looked like a bro.
Jessica:
Well, also his name is Alan Jackson. So part of me wants the lights to go down and him to start singing-
Bri:
I could not believe that was his name.
Jessica:
I have very high expectations if your name is Alan Jackson.
Bri:
Yeah. I mean, this is a reference I'm not understanding, but I'm assuming it's a musician you really like.
Jessica:
It is a big country musician. I'm going to show you.
Bri:
Okay. Don't be mad.
Jessica:
So you didn't have that when you heard his name?
Bri:
When I Googled it, I was like-
Jessica:
Guy with a big cowboy hat?
Bri:
No, no, I definitely don't know that.
Jessica:
Okay, well you're missing out.
Bri:
I always love pop music.
Jessica:
Okay, so you're not a country girl. Clearly not. No. Okay. Well, aside from that, we have the first Jane Doe up. I only saw the first day and I felt like she was struggling because of her language barrier. And also his lawyer, both of his lawyers won't take their masks off while they're-
Bri:
The prosecuting lawyers.
Jessica:
The prosecuting lawyers will not. So she kept saying... You can't really understand them. It's like this muffled...
Bri:
She had a Russian-Italian accent. She's native Russian and native Italian.
Jessica:
She had a translator sitting next to her. So I was getting frustrated. I'm just like, "Take the mask off so this woman can... Help her out."
Bri:
[inaudible 00:08:46] so she can understand.
Jessica:
Yeah. It seemed like that was a bad move [inaudible 00:08:51].
Bri:
I mean, in a lot of cases like this, when it's a big person versus the people and you have the prosecution being public defenders who are so young, it's just, the power is so imbalanced so often. But this team especially, I mean, they seem like great people, don't get me wrong. They would help an old lady across the street. But they're just so junior compared to Harvey's pit bulls of defense lawyers that there's some moments where you're like, "Oh my God, defendants, please stop."
Jessica:
It's painful.
Bri:
It's so painful. But Jane Doe, she was very emotional describing the alleged incident of non-consensual sex. And it was hard. But some things just were not adding up in the way that the defense closed. I mean, I'm happy to jump right to the defense about Jane Doe one, but if you feel like it's more fair to give some meat before we get to the last statement?
Jessica:
Well, I think we should just run over her side of the story, which is that she was approached through... Harvey barged into her hotel room, right?
Bri:
After dinner together with friends.
Jessica:
Okay. And I'm not going to speak on it because I wasn't there for the rest of her testimony, but that's where the alleged assault took place, right?
Bri:
You're right, you're right. It was in her hotel room. He allegedly called from downstairs, the front desk, asked for her and she said to the front desk, "No, he can't come up." They let him go up anyways. He knocked on her door in her hallway allegedly, allegedly was like, "Open the door. It's me, it's Harvey." He was making an alleged scene.
Jessica:
It was a big scene.
Bri:
A big scene, she described. And then she opened the door and he just barged right in, allegedly, and then allegedly raped her. And she's describing this, it sounds intimidating and scary. And the balls.
Jessica:
We should probably just cover that so we can get that over with.
Bri:
Let's just get it over with.
Jessica:
I feel like I've been avoiding it because it's just gross.
Bri:
It's not your thing. I like how wholesome you are. People don't really understand. The gory details actually really gross you out. So Jane Doe one said that Harvey told her to suck his balls. And was it you who said you saw Harvey whisper to his lawyers, "Did I say that?"
Jessica:
I didn't see that. No, I didn't see that.
Bri:
Someone else saw that. And saw Harvey say to his lawyers, "Did I say that?" And we already knew we that might see his genitals but it makes more sense now.
Jessica:
It's evidence on behalf of the defense, right?
Bri:
So when Jane Doe one said, "Harvey told me to suck his balls," the reason why that's not believable is because Harvey doesn't have testicles. He has a testicle.
Jessica:
I am so confused with the descriptions. It was like, first they say that it's sewn to his thighs. And then there's one testicle, there's no testicle.
Bri:
I'm really proud of us for not laughing right now.
Jessica:
I'm trying so... It's not our fault. The amount of court time that is dedicated to his genitals is just a lot.
Bri:
Can I tell everyone that I tallied every time they said, "suck my balls"?
Jessica:
And how many was it?
Bri:
12.
Jessica:
And that's 12 too many. It was within five minutes. It was nuts, no pun intended. We were doing good for a minute.
Bri:
We were. Well, we tried. This is why we tried not to even talk about it because it's just like-
Jessica:
No. Yeah. And also you have to make a joke about it because it's so like what am I listening to? And then, so they had 31 photos of evidence of what Harvey looks like. He had a condition, he had to get surgery. He had gangrene. It is a legit condition.
Bri:
Condition. And they open your abdomen and...
Jessica:
It sounds horrible. And he has a lot of scarring on his abdomen. I mean, they really drill the idea or the image, the vision of this maimed, grotesque...
Bri:
Maimed, yeah.
Jessica:
Character.
Bri:
The amount of physical body insults he gets on at least one a day. And they're never light, like, "Oh, he just wasn't cute," it's insulting.
Jessica:
You guys, literally every hour, some reference causes one of the lawyers to point over at him like, "Well, look at him. Look at him." It's like, okay.
Bri:
And Harvey's all like fixing his collar when they do it. It's so...
Jessica:
Oh my gosh. Yeah. He's fixing his collar and adjusting his glasses.
Bri:
And I love his thick-rimmed glasses.
Jessica:
His glasses are good. Are those Ray-Bans?
Bri:
I don't know. They're really chic, though.
Jessica:
I like when he wears the glasses. But yeah, it's uncomfortable.
Bri:
It's really uncomfortable. And then at one point on Wednesday, Jane Doe's almost on her third day of talking.
Jessica:
She was up there for a long time.
Bri:
Up there for a long time. And I went to the bathroom. I was like the first one to be able to leave the courtroom when we took a break and I went to the bathroom and I hear, it sounded like someone felt to the ground, but it was just Jane Doe pushing open the bathroom doors. And then she started heaving and hyperventilating and throwing up in the bathroom.
Jessica:
What day was that?
Bri:
On Wednesday. I felt so bad that she's so stressed out. No matter how you slice it, it's a really traumatizing thing to do.
Jessica:
Right. And to get up there on the stand.
Bri:
And say "my vagina" and say all these things.
Jessica:
Because the descriptions are very graphic. We're being walked through every moment in descript of this rape. It's a lot.
Bri:
Because I think that the courtroom, everyone in there can agree that all these intercourses, they all happened. All the sex moments did happen. But it's like, was it rape or is it a deep regret for a million reasons?
Jessica:
Well, that's what we're in there trying to figure out.
Bri:
Right. So the fire alarm, though.
Jessica:
Okay, the fire alarm's a big deal.
Bri:
So Jane Doe one throws up in the bathroom Wednesday afternoon and then we go back to cross examination and Alan Jackson is doing the whole... "What time were you there?" asking her 10,000 times the timeframe. And he goes, "At 12:47 AM did you hear a fire alarm?" And Jane Doe one says, "No." And Alan Jackson said, "12:47 AM, did you hear a four-minute fire alarm?" The lawyers sidebar. Alan Jackson is like, you can feel his energy from across the room, he's laughing hysterically. He's like, to the prosecution, he's like, "You think we're not going to mention a fire alarm?" Well, a four-minute fire alarm is notable. So he goes back to Jane Doe one, he's like, "So that night, every single hotel room made a complaint to the hotel and they were all evacuated. But you don't remember this?" She said, "No." And he says, "No further questions."
Jessica:
Did he end there?
Bri:
He ended there.
Jessica:
He loves a dramatic... I mean, that's dramatic, right? What did the court do?
Bri:
I just remember, it's one of those moments where you're like, I'm glad I woke up at 5:00 AM today to be here because this shit is wild.
Jessica:
So is he insinuating that she was never at the hotel, or that she wasn't there at that time?
Bri:
I believe the more complex insinuation is, you had sex with Harvey but it wasn't that traumatizing that you would remember the day clearly or else you would've gotten this right.
Jessica:
Oh, okay. Really? Because I don't think they're saying it didn't happen. Are they?
Bri:
Well, they might be saying that. I just don't believe that they never fucked. They obviously had sex. I don't know. I don't know, because he probably wouldn't say, "Suck my balls" to her.
Jessica:
Yeah. I thought way too long about that too, if he would say that. But what was the insinuation about her affair with the Italian director? Why did that have anything to do with this?
Bri:
Well, the judge wouldn't let them continue on with that argument. I don't know if you remember that or not.
Jessica:
I read they were inching into slut-shaming, and was that what that was about?
Bri:
I don't know if it was inching into slut-shaming or inching into, "You were with Pascal that night, not Harvey."
Jessica:
Okay.
Bri:
It's hard to say.
Jessica:
Is hard to say. I read the court notes and I was confused by it. But yeah. So that was kind of a little bombshell drop.
Bri:
The fire alarm?
Jessica:
Yeah.
Bri:
Absolutely.
Jessica:
So he was proud of that.
Bri:
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, Harvey must feel confident about that.
Jessica:
But nothing compared to the witness that came after her, character witness.
Bri:
Are you referring to Ashley?
Jessica:
Yep.
Bri:
What about Ashley makes you say, "But nothing compares to Ashley."
Jessica:
I felt like Ashley was a very, very poor decision on the prosecution's part. She was not a good witness. She was a weak witness. I was wondering why they put her up there when it seems like they have more credible women, right?
Bri:
You would think. We thought that when we were- [inaudible 00:19:07]
Jessica:
Just wondering what the purpose was of Ash. So she is not anonymous, right? She's not a Jane Doe.
Bri:
Her last name's technically not.
Jessica:
Okay, so Ashley S.
Bri:
No, Ashley M.
Jessica:
Ashley M.
Bri:
Kelly S. is the one.
Jessica:
Oh, okay.
Bri:
Ashley M. is a former ballerina dancer in music videos. She was in a very specific movie for Harvey Weinstein, but it was in Puerto Rico so that's why she's not in this trial as a witness with counts against her because it was outside of the jurisdiction.
Jessica:
She also dated a member of the Spin Doctors and they didn't say which one.
Bri:
No, that was Kelly S. Ashley M. dated...
Jessica:
Oh, okay. I'm getting Ashley and Kelly mixed up.
Bri:
You are. Sorry. I'm having a hard time getting to Ashley because every time I think about it, it just makes my head spin with anger. Because I'm just like, "What are you talking about?" She's like, "He invited me to dinner. I didn't want to go. I called my mom and I called my fiance and they both told me to go." And her voice is like this, and she's like, "And I called my mom and told her that I was scared. I didn't want to go with Harvey to his hotel or to dinner. I didn't want to go. And she told me to go. So I called my fiance and he told me just to go. And if I was with an assistant, I'd be fine. And assistant seemed so nice and I went. I didn't want to go, but I went and I was crying the whole ride there."
Jessica:
So I completely missed this testimony.
Bri:
You did.
Jessica:
Yeah. Okay. That's why I don't know who this person is. Whoops.
Bri:
Yeah. And you want to say that you understand being intimidated into something, but I personally don't ever want to hear a friend of mine be like, "I didn't want to go. So then I went." You know?
Jessica:
Yeah.
Bri:
That's hard. It's hard to imagine that this man is going to be away from his family the rest of his children's lives, the rest of his own life. Because this is very harsh and I think people can insinuate what I'm saying, but it's hard. It's really hard to hear someone be like, "I had free will to not go and I did go." And for people to be like, "He could make my career." It's like, you're telling me that you wanted to be famous more than you wanted to have free will? If you're telling me he was horrible, I'm with you, I'm so with you. But please tell a story that makes me feel like you had no fucking choice.
Jessica:
Okay.
Bri:
And I feel like if you're crying on the way to see someone that you don't want to see, then don't go in the car.
Jessica:
So you want accountability?
Bri:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica:
So how old was she?
Bri:
It's in my other notebook. I think she was in her twenties.
Jessica:
Okay. And she was meeting him in hopes of getting...
Bri:
They had been talking outside of set for a little while. And he hit on her. She didn't like the way he hit on her and she told him, "I have a fiance." And he goes, "Who's your fiance?" And she told Harvey, so-and-so. He goes, "Oh, I know him. He won't mind."
Jessica:
Oh, wow. I mean, he knows everyone.
Bri:
Yeah. And her former husband is incredibly famous, or he's not famous, but his family has... I don't want to say too much.
Jessica:
Also, can we talk about how horrible Harvey's pickup lines are, though?
Bri:
They're like, "Your boobs would never be good for modeling. You could only... Whatever."
Jessica:
Or he's like, "Don't worry, come in. It won't take long." It's so bad.
Bri:
It's so bad.
Jessica:
Some of these women describe him as charming and charismatic and stuff, but the pickup lines are not great.
Bri:
That's why I believe Jennifer Lawrence didn't actually fuck him. Because she'd be like, "Harvey, really? Shut the fuck up."
Jessica:
Really?
Bri:
Yeah. I feel like if we're going to believe people when they say things happen, we should also believe them when they say things didn't happen.
Jessica:
Yeah. I suppose that's a point. I don't know. I'm conflicted. And I don't think it really matters.
Bri:
Amen, yeah.
Jessica:
But it's mostly just a rumor. It's a big rumor. Jennifer Lawrence, Sienna Miller and who's the other? Those are names that come up again and again as the rumored... Gwyneth, we don't know, really know. Although I have a hard time believing the Gwyneth one because she's so connected in Hollywood. She's Hollywood royalty. Why would she need to go fuck Harvey Weinstein?
Bri:
I think with Gwyneth and Jennifer Lawrence, Harvey would just say that he fucked those girls to get other girls to fuck him.
Jessica:
Yeah. That's what I think.
Bri:
It's like having a good job on your resume to get another one.
Jessica:
He did make their careers, so he's just kind of throwing in this whole...
Bri:
Yeah.
Jessica:
Again, terrible pickup line.
Bri:
Terrible pickup line. Tomorrow's Wednesday?
Jessica:
Tomorrow's Wednesday.
Bri:
There's a third witness, Kelly S. How did we just skip that?
Jessica:
Was that yesterday?
Bri:
That was Monday.
Jessica:
I've lost all sense of time.
Bri:
So Friday wrapped up with Ashley M. and her ex-husband and her mom and Harvey's private part photos and the jury looking at all the photos in a private room. That was Friday. And then Monday we were like, "Oh, it's going to be a really boring day." It was FBI testimony about cell phone towers. And then Kelly S., another victim character witness. That was probably the worst decision.
Jessica:
So that's the one I was referring to. I felt like she was a very weak witness, right?
Bri:
That's being kind. That's being really [inaudible 00:25:06].
Jessica:
I like to be kind.
Bri:
Do you want me to stop? Do you want me to turn it down?
Jessica:
I'm just saying, for those of you listening, if you're getting us confused, I am the nicer one. And that's not always the case in situations. So just let it be known.
Bri:
But it's not because I'm really mean. It's just that I'm really expressive.
Jessica:
So how would you describe her?
Bri:
As a desperate housewife who doesn't like where her life went and lays in bed and wonders what would've happened if I would've married Harvey Weinstein because he said he was going to leave his wife for me. And what if I told him, "Leave your wife for me, Harvey," and now I could be a famous woman instead of playing tennis in Toronto. Because basically they had a thing in... I'm going to tell the short story first and I'll tell the longer story after. They had a moment in 1991 of meeting, hanging out, drinking all day, going to three locations. Third location, alleged rape in the Four Seasons Hotel. 17 years later.
Jessica:
Same event.
Bri:
So they met at the Toronto International Film Festival. That's the same week every year. And she's born and raised Toronto, stayed in Toronto. And then Kelly S., 17 years later...
Jessica:
At the Four Seasons.
Bri:
At the Four Seasons, the same exact time because her family's having house renovations done for five weeks. By the way, I'm like, did you stay at the Four Seasons a lot in the last 17 years to stay there for five weeks when your house is being renovated? Kelly asked, "Did you revisit the scene of the crime often for 17 years and think about Harvey?"
Jessica:
Yeah, personally I feel like I'd want to avoid that hotel. But I mean, I have never been in this situation. But yeah, it seems weird that she was so connected to it. Maybe it's just a really luxury-
Bri:
Listen, I was giving her the benefit of the doubt until we walked out of court that day. I'm going to be honest, I didn't have this harsh of a view about her until, well, she kept saying things like, "Well, I told my friends I knew Harvey and they thought I was pretty darn cool."
Jessica:
But you have to explain what happened because it's a repeated crime. It's the exact same scenario repeated 18 years later.
Bri:
Yeah. So then they're staying at the hotel because their house is under renovations. She says, "I knew there was a chance he would be there, but I didn't think I'd see him." When Kelly S. saw Harvey Weinstein in the lobby of the hotel where she was allegedly raped by him 17 years earlier, she calls out his name, "Harvey," and they exchange pleasantries. A few hours later that night, she's at the hotel bar lobby with her friend, drinking wine. Harvey's assistant comes down, this young girl, and says, "Harvey wants to see you." Kelly S. goes with the assistant, who she's never met before, upstairs. And she goes to Harvey's hotel room. And she's once again in a hotel room in the same hotel with her rapist, alleged rapist.
Jessica:
Well, she says she was going to go up there to confront him, remember?
Bri:
Yeah.
Jessica:
She wanted to confront him. And she said to him, allegedly, "How does it feel to be staring at the only woman who turned you down?"
Bri:
The first woman that turned you down.
Jessica:
"The first woman that turned you down." So then she says he pushes her, or they used the word shuttle.
Bri:
Shuffles.
Jessica:
Shuffles? I thought it was shuttle, because I was like, why are they saying shuttle?
Bri:
Shuffle.
Jessica:
Okay, that makes more sense. He shuffles her into the bathroom where he starts masturbating and trying to pull her blouse off. Again, the odd thing is she's wearing a skort. So the first time... Because they have to describe their outfit. So in 1991, the first alleged rape, she says that she was wearing a spandex skort. And then 18 years later, in this new bathroom scenario, this horror, she's wearing a tennis skort. So it's just, to be sitting there, to have every single element the exact same... So you were allegedly raped in 1991, and then 18 years later you go to the same hotel for the same event, call him out as he is walking past you, go up to his hotel room knowing what he's capable of, and then get forced and cornered into a bathroom and then he's in there. It was very odd.
Bri:
I don't doubt that Harvey Weinstein is an enormous pervert with intimidation tactics that we could never even imagine. And I don't doubt that he's disrespectful as fuck. Not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying if you're going to serve the public a huge movement like this, then at least let's just be more real about what the fuck is going on. Because you're having one man go down for something way bigger than the Hollywood industry.
Jessica:
It is way bigger. And I think hopefully people are kind of starting to realize that.
Bri:
Yeah. Because I don't doubt that really unethical things happen and need to stop happening. That's not at all what I'm saying [inaudible 00:30:27].
Jessica:
And I definitely think that he was forcing himself and doing disgusting things. And very forceful and maybe raping some of these people.
Bri:
Right. But at the end of the day-
Jessica:
It's disgusting on a lot of levels, because the women who are up there seeking fame and wanting something, I mean, there's a lot of elements to it. It's basically the whole industry is disgusting. That's how I feel. I'm grossed out by the whole industry.
Bri:
I agree. Chasing fame is dangerous.
Jessica:
Yeah. And so where do we go from here?
Bri:
Well, I want to just say at that the end of that day, Kelly S., all the journalists left. We were in the hallway going home and her lawyers stopped the group of us journalists and said, "Kelly wants me to let you know how to spell her first and last name. Please feel free to write about her in any publication, in any media," and spelled her name several times. And all of us were like, "What?" All of us were so confused. Why did she think that went well? None of us thought that went well.
Jessica:
She seemed pretty proud. And Harvey had a big smile on his face after when that day wrapped.
Bri:
Because Alan Jackson was like, "So, you and this monstrous rapist who traumatized you..."
Jessica:
Well, we're forgetting the last part. So after this second alleged incident, she is invited to a party that night.
Bri:
That night.
Jessica:
Hosted by Harvey, right?
Bri:
Hosted by Harvey for the Toronto International Film Festival.
Jessica:
She goes to it.
Bri:
With four friends.
Jessica:
She takes four friends to the party after she's allegedly been raped by him.
Bri:
And says that she looked really cool for having the tickets. It's the second time that she referenced that her relationship with Harvey Weinstein increased her social value.
Jessica:
And also in between these two incidents, there was some forms of communication. She was reaching out.
Bri:
He flew her to New York.
Jessica:
He flew her to New York. He paid for her hotel. He paid for her flight to get this audition in New York. The defense is making the point that I think-
Bri:
She gave him her number.
Jessica:
Well, there's continued communication and follow up, which I understand how that can happen. But just the elements here where it's the exact same thing repeated, down to the outfit she was wearing. Or I mean the style of the outfit. It was spandex and then it was a tennis skort.
Bri:
Right. And she admitted that she was attracted to him intellectually.
Jessica:
She was very flattering about him. She said he was...
Bri:
Her voice got so soft when she was describing him.
Jessica:
Also, can I just say that these people, these women that have to testify, they have to come down the stand and walk literally right... They almost brush against Harvey.
Bri:
Ugh. Yeah.
Jessica:
I cringe every time these women walk down from the stand, down this narrow little walkway, and he almost has to scoot his chair in for them to pass. Can we not figure out a better table situation?
Bri:
I don't think people really understand how stressful it is to be in court, or else people would stop going to court.
Jessica:
It is very draining.
Bri:
So draining. And when you walk in there and you're on the witness stand, you're tripping. It feels like you're tripping.
Jessica:
I would never ever want to be up there. That's my worst nightmare.
Bri:
Yeah, it's horrible. It's really bad. It fucks you up.
Jessica:
And they don't talk like normal people. Everything is so... The way they break it down.
Bri:
And the way they talk to you right before you go on, it's never what you actually... I mean, it's just so convoluted. And then it makes you wonder... I don't know, just the deep hole of what is the truth? If I'm telling the truth, why have a pretrial? Why is there a set up with this attorney before I talk? It's so weird.
Jessica:
But before Harvey was on where he's at now, he was on the head of the table. And he was staring directly at the jurors and us. I think we posted some articles about that. It was pretty intense.
Bri:
[inaudible 00:34:41] found the chair moving to be super fascinating. I didn't think it was that interesting considering the bailiff is just really was nitpicking every single person the first few days. So that Harvey moving seats to me was like, well, of course.
Jessica:
Well, as soon as they sat him down, I'm like, what are they doing? He's facing the jury and he's watching all of them. And then he literally just turns around.
Bri:
Like an iguana, yeah.
Jessica:
Staring at us. But he still turns his head around and looks around.
Bri:
Oh, all the time. Yeah. He wants to know who's there.
Jessica:
I mean, because he had surprise witnesses, or surprise...
Bri:
Visitors?
Jessica:
Visitors at the New York trial. Different women. Rose McGowan was out front with a protest sign. So I think that first day when he walked in and asked his lawyer, "Who's here? Who's here today?" He doesn't know. At any point, any day, somebody from his past could show up. So he's kind of on high alert.
Bri:
Yeah. I mean, when I read the articles from the New York trial, it seems like that was a really strong trial. It seems like the conversation seemed like a lot more intense and the recall seemed a lot more intense. I don't know what it is. I really flew to LA thinking we were going to be crushed by these devastating stories.
Jessica:
Yeah. I keep wondering what's ahead. We only know of one more identity. How many more women are going to testify?
Bri:
Four to five.
Jessica:
So we have Jennifer Newsom.
Bri:
Jane Doe four.
Jessica:
Jane Doe four. And then there's a surprise-
Bri:
Jane Doe two, Jane Doe three, Jane Doe four. And then I believe her name is... The head of [inaudible 00:36:30] in Tribeca. Her, and then possibly Jane Doe five. And I feel like there's even one more person.
Jessica:
Well, and then there's the character witnesses in between, right?
Bri:
Yeah.
Jessica:
So yeah, it's a lot. It's going to be a long trial. They said we're making good time, but it's a lot still ahead. And we have Mel Gibson on his way.
Bri:
And we have Danny Masterson down the hall.
Jessica:
Down the hall we have Danny Masterson and some weird Scientology-
Bri:
[inaudible 00:37:01]
Jessica:
Some weird Scientology vibes. It's so scary.
Bri:
Yeah. Jess doesn't always believe me when I talk about vibes, but I'm really hoping that this Danny Masterson Scientology thing, that we can be on the same page, that these people freak me out.
Jessica:
I feel like I need to peek in there. I was in the elevator with all of his brothers. How many brothers does he have?
Bri:
He has three, but only two have gone, because the other one's kind of famous.
Jessica:
So I was in the elevator with his family and they were just... It was like they just left a-
Bri:
A picnic.
Jessica:
Yeah, they are...
Bri:
Best day ever, every day.
Jessica:
I mean, everyone's having a good time in there except these victims and the Scientology...
Bri:
The victims of Danny Masterson-
Jessica:
There's some weird intimidation happening.
Bri:
... will shatter your soul into a million pieces. It's so hard to listen to. I've snuck in, in the times where Harvey is slow. Slow or just whenever I get to chance. And it's really hard to listen to.
Jessica:
And his whole family's there.
Bri:
And they seem hypnotized and out of it, like they drank the Kool-Aid and then they bought more Kool-Aid and kept drinking the Kool-Aid.
Jessica:
And then Bijou Phillips has just a permanent glaze, right?
Bri:
She has a permanent glaze.
Jessica:
I didn't know who it was. I was standing in line next to them and I recognized him. I was not a fan of that show. So I don't really...
Bri:
I was obsessed. I watched every episode.
Jessica:
Okay. So I only know him because of this trial really, if I'm being honest. So right away I recognize him because he looks like a Hollywood guy. And then I couldn't figure out the woman next to him. And I was like, oh, it must be his publicist, something in the business. But I was like, she's pretty in a relatable way. And it wasn't until I got back inside Harvey that the reporter next to me told me that it was her. I didn't know they were married.
Bri:
Yeah, they've been together for a very long time. I feel like they're perfect together.
Jessica:
Okay. Yeah. But there is a Scientology lawyer in there, right? Almost defending Scientology.
Bri:
I believe all three of his lawyers are Scientologists. Not a hundred percent sure.
Jessica:
But they're defending the religion that it doesn't get dragged into...
Bri:
The judge had to stop at one point one of the days to be like, "Just so we all remember that we have a stipulation in this case that Scientology cannot be mentioned this much. It cannot become the other person in this case." And I think it's almost impossible for these women to explain themselves and to say, "I did go. I did immediately go tell someone, because in our organization I did exactly what I was supposed to do." And every time these women would say, "Danny allegedly drugged and raped me, Danny allegedly..."
Jessica:
Were these his girlfriends?
Bri:
One was his girlfriend of six years. I don't think any of them were strangers. And they were all in the Scientology community and were friends. And one woman, he allegedly put a gun to her head while he was raping her.
Jessica:
Oh my God.
Bri:
Lisa-Marie Presley is supposed to be coming to testify like the [inaudible 00:40:21].
Jessica:
Why is Lisa-Marie Presley dragged into this?
Bri:
There was a night, there was Lisa-Marie, her then boyfriend, Danny Masterson and this girl.
Jessica:
She was dating Danny?
Bri:
No, not Lisa. The girl that he was raping.
Jessica:
Oh, okay.
Bri:
They weren't like-
Jessica:
Sorry. You guys, remember I haven't slept.
Bri:
And allegedly they were in a hot tub and the girl had like half a drink and got really loopy. And the other guy's like, "Oh, I'll help her," and Danny's like, "No, no, no, I'll help her." And he's like, "Don't worry, I'm not going to do anything." And then brought her upstairs and she said she was out of it and she woke up and he had a gun to her head and he was like, "You're not going to tell Lisa about this. You're not going to tell so-and-so about this. You're not going to tell anyone about it."
Jessica:
Oh my gosh. Gross. So that's why it's so important what Leah...
Bri:
Remini posted.
Jessica:
Remini posted. Yeah. Because she really broke it down why... I mean, she basically says in it, spread this so that... Because there's not enough interest in the case, right? I mean, there is in the courthouse, everybody's talking about it in the courthouse. But I mean, the general public I don't think knows what's going on.
Bri:
Yeah, I know I said when we started recording that I was going to talk more about this, but I actually don't want to. Yeah. Maybe when it's over, but I actually, I don't want to.
Jessica:
Well, we can be done. We'll keep you all posted on all the things.
Weinstein Trial Catch Up