The argument between Elon Musk and Laura Loomer over H1-B visas conflates two entirely separate issues, and it’s important to untangle them.
1. The Workforce Debate
There’s a clear distinction between bringing in top-tier engineering minds versus filling jobs that “anyone” can do. These are fundamentally different conversations. While the former bolsters innovation and keeps companies like SpaceX and Tesla competitive on a global scale, the latter raises concerns about undercutting wages for American workers. Both debates matter, but they shouldn’t be conflated. The real issue lies in how we manage and balance these priorities.
2. A Broken System
Loomer’s criticism misses a critical point: America’s education system is failing to produce enough high-caliber talent to meet demand, especially in STEM fields. This isn’t a problem we can fix overnight or even in a decade, as Vivek Ramaswamy rightly points out. Until we address systemic deficiencies, like outdated curricula and lack of access to quality STEM education, we’ll need to rely on foreign talent to maintain our competitive edge.
3. Personal Perspective
As a parent of kids ranging from 19 to 5, I’m deeply worried about where their place in the workforce will come from as AI continues to take over so many jobs. The idea of their future opportunities being limited is frightening, but that doesn’t mean I’d want them to be hired for a job just because they’re American if someone else—like a brilliant engineer from India—could potentially revolutionize an entire industry. Merit and innovation have to remain central to these discussions, even as we navigate complex challenges like automation.
4. Loomer’s Motivations
Loomer’s approach to this debate is not only unproductive but veers into performative outrage. Her pattern of incendiary rhetoric raises the question: Whose fight is she really fighting? Her attacks feel less like genuine concern for American workers and more like a personal vendetta—or perhaps a stipulation tied to her role as a lightning rod for controversy. It wouldn’t be surprising if her funding streams or social media accounts (some of which may have been banned) drive her behavior.
5. Unfounded Attacks
Her vulgarity and lack of boundaries undermine any legitimate concerns she might raise. While Musk operates on a global, innovation-focused level, Loomer seems more concerned with pedaling outrage and creating noise for attention. It’s grossly unproductive and diminishes the seriousness of the issues at hand.
In summary, we need to separate the real policy questions—how to balance workforce needs and innovation—from the chaos and noise generated by people like Loomer, who seem more intent on spectacle than solutions. This isn’t a fight we can resolve with tweets or attention-seeking tirades; it requires thoughtful, systemic changes and prioritization of long-term education reform.
And btw who are your “friends”? They need to read comments in X on the threads cause they are just repeating the main posts.
Yes. Thank you. Our country's education system is directly linked to what our future employment prospects will look like. Our current system downplays STEM in favor of teaching the LGBTQ+ propaganda, and taking away critical thinking. I even see it in the medical students I teach. Yet the Asian (including India) population knows how important STEM subjects are and pushes education in these, as well as ancillary subjects that augment like music and learning other languages. And now, thanks to the COVID lockdowns on education, our educational future is in big trouble. We should be working on BOTH changing our education system AND attracting stellar immigrants. I remember emigrating to New Zealand nearly 25 years ago, and I had to go through a vetting system of points to ensure I wouldn't be a drain on their economy by moving and working there. Why is it so controversial that we should dare to employ something similar with our immigration system?
I just listened to a podcast on diary of a ceo with a financial expert and I’m wondering why I even have my kids in a school system like we have here. I really don’t see how it will prepare them for any kind of decent job especially with AI and how badly we are responding to this and yes the years of garbage with Covid and the propaganda. How do we educate our kids? What kind of jobs will there be in 5, 10, 20 years? Certainly not factory work which seems to be what American eduction is still promoting. We have done private, public, boarding etc. It’s all the same. I feel like people like Vivek and Musk can help answer and solve this but Loomer is such a distraction from the core issues it gets so annoying watching her derail any type of constructive dialogue.
As an educator, I agree the system is broken. However, I also know that society and the emphasis on gentle parenting and kids not being independent, self- sufficient, and having stamina to do hard things- like even occupying their time when they are "bored" is a drain on the system. Parents do not take education seriously and treat their kids with kid gloves. That needs fixing if we want a strong society of hard workers. God forbid a kid do chores or earn money or get an F on an assignment!
Agree 100%. I am a boomer, and I watch these younger generations, including our 3 daughters who are in their 40s, make excuse after excuse for their children's poor performance and poor behavior. So much of these issues are intertwined between parenting and schooling. We brought our children up in the same fashion in which we were raised, which was high expectations from our parents and no coddling at home or at school. We excelled. We are self-disciplined, have a strong sense of personal responsibility, and we are hard workers. We must return to that if we are to have a workforce of strong, able young people that can compete on the world stage. It won't be easy and it won't be overnight.
Absolutely agree. I’m older Gen X and as an employer, found Millennials and Gen Z extremely difficult to work with. It’s going to be a long while to undo the damage. We are in Kali Yuga. The age of conflict. All of the chaos we’re seeing right now was predicted in Hinduism thousands of years ago. Civilizations move in predictable cycles. We are in the stage of weak men. Weak men create hard times; hard times create strong me; strong men create good times; good times create weak men.
I don't need to. I am not against homeschooling however, children coming in to public schools after homeschooling still lack stamina to do hard things. And they generally have trouble socializing. If homeschooling works for you that is wonderful!
Yes it starts in the Education System. I just saw that our County and District hires and retains plenty of H1-B’s. Schools have been so focused on putting boys into girls bathrooms and affirming their delusion propelling dei obsessed cults > the reality and truth is that we live in a competitive world and this educational ingrained bs is useless in real life. 🙏🏼 go MAGA 🔥
It starts at home. Parents have to stop coddling their children and making excuses for their poor behavior and performance. Parents must be more involved with their children's teachers and schools. Schools must quit coddling children and get back to teaching things that will help a child excel, instead of being more concerned with their feelings.
Well, schools have become soft because of litigious, demanding parents who are raising soft kids. Parents do need to be involved by holding their children accountable when the teacher/school sees a problem.
Agree with everything thing you say. Loomer comes off like click bait and just wanting to be a flamethrower. I don’t see her presenting rational and logical arguments for her positions. I think she often defames and could be held accountable for libel. Tabloid accusations can damage reputations.
Loomer is a flamethrower crazy bitch, but she’s Trump’s flamethrower crazy bitch…. She’s a lot of things, I don’t always like her style, but she’s a dog with a bone… Elon and Vivek won’t be able to sit down after she’s done ripping their asses. Sound advice, when backed in a corner, bet on Loomer.
I worked in immigration law as a paralegal while I was in college, so I understand the baseline for working visas, investment visas, and the qualifications needed to obtain both or either. However, while “he” might have his reasons to request or require certain standards, he has no logical or intelligent reason (nor does anyone else) to censor people, period. We were born with a mouth so we can speak, chew, and breathe as needed. Not a single person should have the power to force someone to close their mouth. That is unjustifiable, unless I am mistaken that is the “big” picture in this article, among other slithering concepts that are coming to light.
If Loomer is claiming to be a journalist (which she does) why isn’t she held to the same standards of truth/defamation/libel that others are. She just says whatever she wants to, insinuates all sorts of scandal and rarely has proof for what she claims.
Agree. The last few things I’ve seen from her both in person (the attack on Milo Y) and on X have all been unhinged and vulgar. She’s not artfully crafting insightful, and helpful responses, she’s just shouting and ranting.
I can’t attach a photo but supposedly loomer gets paid by an account that was also put in timeout as well as the others that get paid to post for account. And also she is so dramatic it was a 12 hour timeout from what I can gather along with all the other accounts. The chances of her reporting on that though are 0%!
Personally, I’m not a fan of hers, but I’m not married to her, so I don’t care what she does. What I do care about is censorship. There is no cause effective and logical enough to censor her or anyone else. Discredit or question someone by using information and logical reasoning, not by censoring them. People will still believe what they want, so why censor?
Elon thought he could shut her up… lmao. Absolutely the worst thing he could ever do is piss that girl off. She’s an attack dog, specifically Trump’s attack dog. Trump likes her because she’s loyal and she’s basically his personal private investigator. She digs and won’t stop digging until she knows what your 5th great grandfather did when he was 15 years old. She lit DeSantis’s campaign on fire before they even got going and destroyed games and traps being played during the primaries to screw Trump over.
Re: the supposition that there is poor STEM (science, technology, engineering and math) education in the U.S. ... it's hard to buy that idea, given we've heard about the focus on STEM for at least the last 20 years and that we still have record numbers of foreign students coming to the U.S. for just such education. The evidence points to the fact that there are plenty of American-born and educated STEM grads, but there's preferential treatment for imports, particularly from India. The numbers are there on the H-1Bs. Once they are added up for years of this gamed program, it's a lot of Indian imports.
In FY 2022, 72.6 percent of approved H-1B applications were given to Indians, with China being the second largest recipient of the program. Meantime, BA degrees with a STEM focus rose from 22 percent of BA degrees awarded in the U.S. to 30 percent between 2006 and 2015, which was the highest level since detailed record-keeping of this area started in 1987.
According to census.gov (article by Jennifer Cheeseman Day and Anthony Martinez, 2 June 2021):
“Majoring in science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) does not guarantee a job in a STEM occupation but it typically means a bump in pay.
“Among the 50 million employed college graduates ages 25 to 64 in 2019, 37 percent reported a bachelor’s degree in science or engineering, but only 14 percent worked in a STEM occupation, according to the Census Bureau’s 2019 American Community Survey one-year estimates.
“This translates into less than a third (28%) of STEM-educated workers actually working in a STEM job.”
The tech area is captive to multiple large Indian companies that handle HR on a huge scale.
From long-time immigration writer Joe Guzzardi:
“Writing for the Economic Policy Institute, Howard University public policy associate professor and ‘Outsourcing America’ author Ron Hira explained how Tata and others, namely Infosys, manipulate U.S. H-1B regulations to displace American engineers. They claim the H-1B is used: 1) to recruit and hire worldwide the best and brightest workers even though only 21 percent of Tata employees and 15 percent of Infosys employees have advanced degrees; 2) to fill skills gaps in the U.S. workforce and 3) as a way to retain talented foreign students with advanced degrees who received their education and training in the U.S., previous administrations’ favorite talking point deception.
“In 2013, Tata paid $30 million to settle a wage theft dispute involving 13,000 foreign workers, and Infosys paid a record $34 million to settle a visa fraud case after it committed ‘systemic visa fraud and abuse of immigration processes.’ Companies with an established pattern of malfeasance like Tata and Infosys should not be allowed to participate in U.S. temporary foreign worker programs like the H-1B.”
There have been many stories about the abuse of the H-1B and how it’s been used to undermine U.S. workers. See displacement stories of jobs lost by Americans at Amazon, Apple, Disney, Google, Microsoft, South-ern California Edison, the University of California and many more organizations.
So at the start of the employment pipeline, you have new college grads not getting the tech jobs, because they’re going to foreign workers, and at more advanced levels, you also have Americans being displaced – a process that has gone on for years, with many American workers let go and replaced by foreign workers.
At some point, Americans realize there’s no point pursuing these jobs, because they will never be hired when there’s a built-in bias for Indians to hire Indians. And the “best in the brightest” is a myth – plenty of stories of one Indian in the U.S. needing to talk to three Indians in India to resolve a problem. And if we indeed are "taking" the best & the brightest from around the world, do we not care about the "brain drain" for those countries?
There’s not a problem just in tech, but in medicine. Increasing numbers of medical residencies (which a doctor must have in order to practice medicine) are going to foreign doctors. But that's a whole other tale of woe ...
This!! And I have to admit, I think Jessica missed the mark on this issue- showing she’s more of a cultural reporter than a substantive one (not a dig, just putting things in perspective). I think this comment is far more concise, informational and important than a fight between lunatic Loomer and Rocket Scientist Musk. Sorry Jessica… Doge will succeed, Trump will, Vivek and Elon- no matter what today’s distractions are. 😉
Jess is pro free speech. I don’t see this post about the squabble, although it does give backstory and details. To me, it’s about censorship and X supposedly being the platform of free speech and then seeing the fallout with Laura. Feels like there’s more to it though because Musk shared the policy info about spam so perhaps there’s some spammy things going on with her account.
Yes!! The American education system is absolutely broken and we should all be concerned. However, parents don’t want to stop their own lives and put down their phones to acknowledge what’s going on right under their noses. They expect teachers and administrators to teach their kids basic manners and it’s not working.
Social Emotional Learning (SEL) along with Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) have ruined the American education system all the way from preschool through college. Loomer doesn’t appear to have kids. She should probably ask more questions to enhance her understanding of where the problem is really coming from before making another post. Those of us who are well-informed, who have been long in the fight and made real progress within our communities don’t take people like her seriously and, frankly, we never will.
Just so we’re clear: I don’t like What Elon and Vivek are saying, but they’re not wrong from a Human Resources perspective. If you want a better future for your children, you need to start with your schools.
Absolutely spot on!! I truly do not feel that Loomer’s rants are helpful-right now!! After Trump is inaugurated will be the time for “healthy” debate. Right now we need to be united behind the goal of getting Trumps appointees confirmed and Trump in office!!
To further expound your first point, H1B1 -01 visas are for extraordinary talent, in the "genius" category. Elon is NOT using that category to bring in talent. He's exploiting the H1B1 standard visa to bring in "talent" engineers at below market rate. And they and others want unfettered access to keep doing that without limit. They're absolutely exploiting slave scab labor at American workers' expense.
I don’t see that being the case. Personal knowledge of American senior engineers at Nvidia making roughly 200-250k. Reported all over X etc visa holders for lower level positions to senior level are making 170-250k. Seems fair to me. I don’t think Elon has a problem paying people for their work. Vs finding people to do the work and work ethic. People are posting hundreds and hundreds of open positions for engineering jobs so idk 🤷🏼♀️ as a society we can’t even get congress to vote in person so imo we have a cultural and an eduction problem. But that’s not to say every person should want to be an engineer or go into stem maybe as a culture it’s ok that we put value on other things. However, we should also be able to draw talents from other places. Personally I love the visa programs and think they are needed but also agree they should be reformed.
Re #2, the S in STEM is "science". There will be no prayer of "fixing" STEM education in America if the incoming party in power remains hostile to science, favors personal opinion over scientific consensus, is openly antagonistic toward institutions of higher education, and frames the college-educated as "the elite". We can't have it both ways.
I appreciate your point about the importance of science in STEM, but I respectfully disagree that we can’t have it both ways. Science evolves, and history shows that some “consensus” has been influenced by external pressures or proven wrong over time. To truly fix STEM, we need independent agencies that prioritize the public good and foster critical thinking. Supporting science means valuing its adaptability while ensuring it remains free from bias and external influence.
So impressed with your ability to expound on a debate that is unfolding as we speak so thoroughly.
I’ve thought really highly of both Elon and Vivek until now. I haven’t written them off yet, but something smells bad here.
What America needs is a few good years— 5-10 at the least— of true America-first reform. Immigration should be on hold (I say this as the daughter of an immigrant), education and exceptionalism should be prioritized, we need to fund our military to promote peace, and we need to pour money into our infrastructure. I’m all for a meritocratic immigration system in the future, but it feels suspiciously self-serving for Elon and Vivek (who was also a billionaire business owner prior to politics, lest we forget) to be promoting this right now. We need a PAUSE on everything that isn’t fixing our country, starting with our elections.
Thanks for your thoughts, time, and research on this, Jess and HIH team!!
But is legal immigration/visa holders really the problem? I’d like for my kids to work and live in another country. I feel like the real issue is so much more complicated which involves being outspent by foreign countries on Amazon and Facebook/IG - everyone is outsourcing whether they actually come and live here or work remote from other countries. Amazon might as well be Temu. It’s the ripple effect of small/medium business getting killed in every industry by foreign powerhouses and Amazon and Facebook allowed to do it. And businesses struggling to pay wages and keep businesses afloat.
It’s not *really* the problem, especially when it’s based on merit, but I read a stat recently that over 6,000 tech company employees (I think it was at Google but I can’t remember the citation) were laid off and replaced by 5,400 H1B immigrants who get paid much less and work much more. I think we need to protect legal immigrants from situations that are exploitative.
I also think we need a period of healing for this country and the willingness to make sacrifices to take care of our people. Again, I’m so proud to be the daughter of a legal immigrant, but I do wish we’d put America first for a minute.
H1B visas push wages down overall. Amazon uses them for warehouse employees so they can pay less than American workers. There’s a reason under Trump when he cut a bunch of them that wages increased for the first time in 40 years above inflation.
I entered the melee on X yesterday, and found that by the end of the night my opinion had shifted somewhat. These are my conclusions:
1. Vivek is correct in his overall observations.
Most of the people weighing in on this seem to have no connection to university, tech, or Indian culture. Having connections to all three, I can say this...most Americans have no idea how hard many Indian students and early-career employees work. Many Americans would say it's child abuse how much these kids study, and how much tutoring they have at a young age. As I understand it, Vivek was not saying that American culture is inferior in all ways...he was simply saying that aspects of American culture make it so that we don't produce a ton of freakishly-good STEM talent. These Indian kids are basically trained to be engineering machines from a young age. I think it's good that American kids have more balance, but don't be shocked when your well-balanced kid is out-competed for a job by an Indian STEM student who has been doing nothing but studying math and science from the age of six. (The Indian engineers I know lament how bad they are at writing, literature, history, etc, because they were not taught much of that in school, and were not given time to develop these interests. Vivek is not saying Indians are superior in all subjects. He's saying they are good at this one thing--STEM--because they obsessively focus on it.) What is great is that America can attract the best talent from around the world. We attract many of these freakishly-good engineers, get them to live in our country and spend money here, and many become citizens. Our win!
2. It's fair for Loomer to criticize the VISA process and demand it be changed. Maybe it should be changed. What is not okay is making vulgar claims about Indian culture and Indian people. We can reform the immigration system without being racist and without alienating entire voting blocs (and the highest-earning group in the United States, which is Indian-Americans!)
3. So, I was pretty much against Loomer because of her vile rhetoric all day yesterday, but then she lost her checkmark and subscribers. If it wasn't retaliation for her views, you'd think Elon would have said so, because he's very outspoken. Elon claimed that X was a platform where you could disagree with him, and say all sorts of offensive things, without being censored. I agreed with Elon when he said that Loomer is just a troll to be ignored. I do not agree with her being censored or demonetized in any way. That put a really bad taste in my mouth, and makes me more sympathetic towards Loomer.
I agree - went in thinking one way and when loomer was finally put in time out was able to see other comments that started making sense like you reiterated above. I saw some comments saying that a company she posts and gets paid by was put in timeout and consequently effected all accounts that were paid by this company. I have a screenshot but can’t attach. I think we have bigger problems than the visa holders - our focus should be on illegal immigrants first.
I think Loomer's rhetoric yesterday showed that she doesn't understand tech, didn't understand the nuances of Vivek's argument about culture, and that she can be pretty racist (I don't like calling people racist because the left throws that term around loosely, but I can find no other way to describe her specific attacks on Indian people). HOWEVER, I think she should be free to spew that vile stuff on a platform that claims not to censor anyone. Elon could have looked like a hero by just leaving her alone and letting the debate play out. Now it looks like he put his finger on the scale, and that will erode trust in him and in X as a platform.
Elon had a temper tantrum and censored a woman most people don't like and thought it would get swept under the rug because he's Elon. Elon has done a lot of trolling himself over the years. This was a big move by Elon, and just because he's couch surfing at Mar-a-Lago and is a current BFF to Trump doesn't mean we're not going to call him out on this.
I'm not 100% certain that Elon took away Loomer's checkmark and unenrolled her subscribers, but it sure looks he did, doesn't it? What I thought was his standard was that any speech that was not illegal would be allowed. I was really upset by what Loomer was posting and stopped reading it for my own mental health, but she didn't break any laws--and if she did, file a police report, and let them deal with it. This will have a stifling effect for speech on X for sure.
Wow….very interesting comments. I honestly think this is all CHILDISH, Elon and Vivek are correct. Laura Loomer seems to be a disrupter and a bit racist.
Come on peeps, let us not forget….we won and TRUMP is going to Make America Great Again! This in fighting is giving the Democrats a hard on.
Tawny, we're not infighting, we're standing up to a man and his company that said free speech is free speech. Then silenced a patron of his company when her free speech did not align with his. Loomer can be loco for Cocoa Puffs for all I care, she's not threatening violence or engaging in hate speech, she is exercising her right to free speech and she was shut down.
This is such a great piece. Wowza. I’ve been watching this unfold for weeks now, and the only conclusion I’ve come to is that many of us, like myself, have become so highly intuitive to bullshit that any and every misstep will be questioned, analyzed, and processed until we have rational decisions based on structure, not emotions. If “he” thinks that money buys the newly transformed Americans, he’s got a surprise coming. He may operate in a vacuum in business, but he won’t succeed in politics. That goes for anyone who is stepping into the White House in 2025. We’re prepared.
Here’s the thing…there is no one person that knows everything about everything, so these disagreements absolutely should happen. Debate should happen and disagreements are inevitable. However, they are all acting like this is high school. Don’t say stuff like someone is cockblocking, don’t even have a term like MAGA loyalist. Definitely don’t de-platform someone.
Elon Musk is a snake in the grass. And all his buddies are too. I WISH Trump wouldn’t have him so close, Musk and his views ruin the MAGA movement. We are not for big pharma and their BS. I am praying RFK can stand firm in MAHA. Laura Loomer can be a little odd but at least she is calling a spade a spade! Thanks for being a voice and sharing Jess!!
The H1B issue is a big problem. There was recently a piece in Bloomberg about Cognizant being sued for discrimination against Americans to the benefit of Indian H1Bs. I believe Disney was sued for something similar.
Tech companies are laying off thousands of Americans and still bringing in H1Bs, how does that make sense? Maybe new grads are under educated in tech. What about all the people that have been laid off and replaced though. Are we to believe that they weren’t qualified to do the jobs that they had been doing?
Bingo!!! I am the source of the quote above in support of Loomer. I was very successful in my 20 year career working for GE when it was considered, "the most admired company," before Jeff Immelt ruined it. As soon as Obama was elected, they started planning the mass layoff of career employees making a decent wage. Immediately after the layoff, my same position, along with that of my colleagues, was posted. Before the layoff, I staffed my large scale projects with seasoned IT professionals from all over the world, as my projects were mostly in Europe, but spanned Asia, as well. However, about 2-3 years prior to the layoff, we were directed start "off-shoring" some of the work, where I was told to use companies in India, who staffed using junior programmers straight out of University with zero experience. I probably still have some of the scant resumes I was provided to choose from. They charged .10 cents on the dollar for what I paid my programmers, and their work reflected it. My seasoned guys spent more time cleaning up after them than it would have taken them to do the work in the first place. The folks in corporate didn't learn their lesson with the extremely costly project delays, and moved onto the H1B visas, replacing skilled American workers by the thousands.
Prior to my work at GE, I did contract work, of which there was an abundance. Thus, I never looked for my next contract until I was ready to work. After GE, I would send out resumes for months without one response, as there were so many loopholes for staffers to avoid the "requirement" to hire US Citizens first. I'd respond to an email from a recruiter within minutes, and not hear back, as mearly sending a mass email qualified as an "attempt to recruit a US citizen."
I can say with 100% certainty, that it was all about saving a buck at the expense of decimating the dreams of tens of thousands of American Citizens. Not only was the economy impacted by tens of thousands of displaced Americans, but the paychecks to the foreign workers that replaced them were sent offshore to their families instead of recirculating in the US economy. It's almost as if it was another part of Obama's plan to destroy the United States.
Came here for this reason. I worked in tech and my husband still does. He’s a computer engineer. Layoffs have been happening for years. Now his company is cutting middle management layers. He’s been due for a promotion for over three years, has no upward mobility and is constantly being given more work for same pay to make up for the layoffs. He’s being told to “work the job he wants” without bringing given the title or pay that should come with it. We’re basically just happy he has a job as we know so many across the different companies who have been let go in the past several years.
It’s awful, I’m sorry. My husband manages a mix of H1Bs and outsourced. He just babysits and cleans up their messes. He’s been laid off many times over the years. He would like to leave but then he would have no seniority and likely be in the same position.
About the engineers and not thinking we have any here who are American is BULLSHIT! These kids graduating right now are smart as can be but STILL CANT FIND JOBS! I know this because my son is at a very prestigious University in Boston and couldn’t find an internship to save his life as well as his whole damn graduating class.
There are plenty of international students from all over the world in his class as well and cannot find jobs . So I don’t know where the hell these jobs are, but I sure like to know.
Yes, the kids who just graduated are having a hard time getting into tech. My son was able to get several internships while in school, two for very prestigious companies which he thought would help him get a full-time job. Unfortunately, in both companies the entire teams he worked for were laid off early 2024! Men, women, American, and Indian and of various levels of experience. Where are these jobs that no one can fill? I know a dozen developers right now in need of jobs.
I think observing Elon Musk with hopeful, healthy skepticism is the move. I remember the things you dropped about him during the Johnny Depp trial that makes me question his desire for neuralink and the reasoning behind it. I also don’t believe any person is as altruistic as he paints himself to be. He deserves praise for his help winning the election, but a lot of others deserve that praise as well.
I feel mostly the same about Vivek Ramaswamy. Although, his motivation seems different. He was likely the nerd and not the jock, but he is also not wrong. As a teacher I watched parents put all their energy into sports, to the point of obsession-kids missed holidays with family, vacations, weekends, proms, graduation-all for a “sports career” that typically made it to community college on scholarship, if that. If the debate centered around kids needing balance, I’d agree with those against Vivek. However, what I observe is most parents putting obsessive focus and energy into pursuits that won’t produce long-term success. In this, Vivek is right. The majority of Americans, especially MAGA Americans, worship sports/athletes, popularity, etc.
Trump is no one’s savior. IMO, he’s a man that is good at negotiation, but he can’t save anyone. The problem with this movement to me is everyone in the “circle” believes they got Trump elected. I however, think God alone did that. There seems a real possibility for change with Trump in office, but the powers outside our control, the “principalities,” if you will, aren’t going to allow change without a major fight. Trump bends toward narcissism, he starts believing his own hype, and forgets he’s only a man. When that happens he likely doesn’t listen to anyone that tells him the truth-especially when he doesn’t like that truth.
Loomer rubbed me the wrong way the first time I saw her speak. She has TDOD-Trump Derangement Obsessive Disorder-she worships Trump as her god. That’s apparent in her inability to realize that by saying Elon bought his way into Trump’s sphere, she’s basically saying DT is for sale. She attacks without thought, or that’s how it seems at least. She may not be wrong in what’s she’s doing, but I can’t help but think she could’ve used better tactics. I’m not sure though. I think she is toxic to Trump, but I’m aware I may be wrong.
Ultimately this all seems like chaos and a distraction for the person who’s supposed to lead our country back to greatness. It would likely be better if he allowed some quiet in his life. This whole thing seems like a King holding court, and DT is not a king-he’s a public servant. If he doesn’t remember that, the country won’t fall tomorrow, but it will fall.
MAHA is the most important faction in all of this to me, but I’m not sure Trump agrees. Health matter the most-because if we are healthy, we all live to fight another day, God willing.
All in all, I have one Savior, Jesus, everyone else is merely human. Vivek, Elon, Trump, Laura Loomer -none are so important that the US will fall or rise without them.
Trump himself has said he is not our savior. But I believe he is the chosen one. He is standing in the way of the globalist elites and for that they want him gone. So yes, Trump is saving us in this spiritual battle.
Trump needs to demonstrate his signature strength and put Elon in his place.
This infiltration and shift in priorities isn't just a slap in the face to mega donors who backed Trump when it wasn't easy, its a slap in the face to everyday Americans who were scared to post "Vote Trump" as their Facebook status but did anyways and lost loved ones for it.
We voted for a revolution, not the same old bullshit. They need to be held accountable to their promises.
Well shit. I have been waiting for the other shoe to drop and it dropped harder than expected. I've been leery of Elon - mostly due to his relationship with Amber - I didn't trust him - ditto for Vivek. They were "too good to be true." The fact Elon made me agree with Laura Loomer and Ann Coulter is almost unforgivable. I think Elon and Laura need to hook up, knock it out to clear their sexual tension, and kumbaya this shit and get back to being on the side of America. The RFK softening is equally troubling. I have empathy for you since you are personally involved with all parties and calling them out for their discrepancies can't be fun. This is why we love and respect you.
Also Coffee and Covid (Jeff Childers) who I linked above says this maga civil war is a “color revolution” of sorts and people should not play into it. And that Loomer is acting as part of it. Illegal immigration is a much bigger issue than legal immigration of tech bros.
Thanks for posting the link to Jeff Childers’ Coffee and Covid! I sent today’s Substack post directly to Jessica because I completely agree with his take on the matter.
The art of compromise and negotiations has all but been lost because of instant access to the wheeling and dealing that is done within the government (as of now Mar-a-largo) keep your friends close and your enemies closer….kinda tired of the obsession of quick news, how many clicks (followers) and likes and reposts and comments can I get!… oh ya where’s my blue check and my money! Are they really in it for the journalism???? Boring… seems like holiday family drama…over it. 😒
Loomer is Nuzzi 2.0. There is some truth to all sides. But her narcissistic style makes everything about herself. She is not interested in solutions. Her self proclaimed leader of MAGA and as the ONLY true supporter of Trump shows her true motives. To stir shit up and distract everyone. She is a trouble maker at heart.
There is no proof Trump likes Loomer. And with Trump siding with Elon this may put her on the outs even more. She says she’s doing Trumps work but that is only self proclaimed.
Trump wouldn’t have her on the plane like he does if he didn’t. Trump likes people others think he shouldn’t… he makes the rules. I’ve said for years, bet on Loomer.
Late to the party today, so forgive please. Thank you, Ok Bob, for discussing the differences between the two issues, as I see this exactly as you do. I even just posted about it, in short form, on X. Your breakdown of the issues and the players is spot on, and there are valid points on both sides. We must, as a country, address the issues in our education system at large, if we hope to get back to being able to relying on US talent. I agree with Musk and Vivek on this issue. I like Laura Loomer and appreciate all she has done for MAGA, and she does make some valid points. Wish she would tone down some of the terms she uses in her posts as it detracts from her message, at least in my book.
Bottom line, this is a discussion that needs to be had. Hopefully we can, this time around, not break apart at the seams before we get out of the gate. I don't worship Musk, Ramaswamy or Loomer, or anyone else. My belief is in Trump and what he can do for this country. Let's none of us great distracted by the small skirmishes on the sidelines among minor players and try to help Trump fix our country and make America great again.
The argument between Elon Musk and Laura Loomer over H1-B visas conflates two entirely separate issues, and it’s important to untangle them.
1. The Workforce Debate
There’s a clear distinction between bringing in top-tier engineering minds versus filling jobs that “anyone” can do. These are fundamentally different conversations. While the former bolsters innovation and keeps companies like SpaceX and Tesla competitive on a global scale, the latter raises concerns about undercutting wages for American workers. Both debates matter, but they shouldn’t be conflated. The real issue lies in how we manage and balance these priorities.
2. A Broken System
Loomer’s criticism misses a critical point: America’s education system is failing to produce enough high-caliber talent to meet demand, especially in STEM fields. This isn’t a problem we can fix overnight or even in a decade, as Vivek Ramaswamy rightly points out. Until we address systemic deficiencies, like outdated curricula and lack of access to quality STEM education, we’ll need to rely on foreign talent to maintain our competitive edge.
3. Personal Perspective
As a parent of kids ranging from 19 to 5, I’m deeply worried about where their place in the workforce will come from as AI continues to take over so many jobs. The idea of their future opportunities being limited is frightening, but that doesn’t mean I’d want them to be hired for a job just because they’re American if someone else—like a brilliant engineer from India—could potentially revolutionize an entire industry. Merit and innovation have to remain central to these discussions, even as we navigate complex challenges like automation.
4. Loomer’s Motivations
Loomer’s approach to this debate is not only unproductive but veers into performative outrage. Her pattern of incendiary rhetoric raises the question: Whose fight is she really fighting? Her attacks feel less like genuine concern for American workers and more like a personal vendetta—or perhaps a stipulation tied to her role as a lightning rod for controversy. It wouldn’t be surprising if her funding streams or social media accounts (some of which may have been banned) drive her behavior.
5. Unfounded Attacks
Her vulgarity and lack of boundaries undermine any legitimate concerns she might raise. While Musk operates on a global, innovation-focused level, Loomer seems more concerned with pedaling outrage and creating noise for attention. It’s grossly unproductive and diminishes the seriousness of the issues at hand.
In summary, we need to separate the real policy questions—how to balance workforce needs and innovation—from the chaos and noise generated by people like Loomer, who seem more intent on spectacle than solutions. This isn’t a fight we can resolve with tweets or attention-seeking tirades; it requires thoughtful, systemic changes and prioritization of long-term education reform.
And btw who are your “friends”? They need to read comments in X on the threads cause they are just repeating the main posts.
Yes. Thank you. Our country's education system is directly linked to what our future employment prospects will look like. Our current system downplays STEM in favor of teaching the LGBTQ+ propaganda, and taking away critical thinking. I even see it in the medical students I teach. Yet the Asian (including India) population knows how important STEM subjects are and pushes education in these, as well as ancillary subjects that augment like music and learning other languages. And now, thanks to the COVID lockdowns on education, our educational future is in big trouble. We should be working on BOTH changing our education system AND attracting stellar immigrants. I remember emigrating to New Zealand nearly 25 years ago, and I had to go through a vetting system of points to ensure I wouldn't be a drain on their economy by moving and working there. Why is it so controversial that we should dare to employ something similar with our immigration system?
I just listened to a podcast on diary of a ceo with a financial expert and I’m wondering why I even have my kids in a school system like we have here. I really don’t see how it will prepare them for any kind of decent job especially with AI and how badly we are responding to this and yes the years of garbage with Covid and the propaganda. How do we educate our kids? What kind of jobs will there be in 5, 10, 20 years? Certainly not factory work which seems to be what American eduction is still promoting. We have done private, public, boarding etc. It’s all the same. I feel like people like Vivek and Musk can help answer and solve this but Loomer is such a distraction from the core issues it gets so annoying watching her derail any type of constructive dialogue.
As an educator, I agree the system is broken. However, I also know that society and the emphasis on gentle parenting and kids not being independent, self- sufficient, and having stamina to do hard things- like even occupying their time when they are "bored" is a drain on the system. Parents do not take education seriously and treat their kids with kid gloves. That needs fixing if we want a strong society of hard workers. God forbid a kid do chores or earn money or get an F on an assignment!
Agree 100%. I am a boomer, and I watch these younger generations, including our 3 daughters who are in their 40s, make excuse after excuse for their children's poor performance and poor behavior. So much of these issues are intertwined between parenting and schooling. We brought our children up in the same fashion in which we were raised, which was high expectations from our parents and no coddling at home or at school. We excelled. We are self-disciplined, have a strong sense of personal responsibility, and we are hard workers. We must return to that if we are to have a workforce of strong, able young people that can compete on the world stage. It won't be easy and it won't be overnight.
Absolutely agree. I’m older Gen X and as an employer, found Millennials and Gen Z extremely difficult to work with. It’s going to be a long while to undo the damage. We are in Kali Yuga. The age of conflict. All of the chaos we’re seeing right now was predicted in Hinduism thousands of years ago. Civilizations move in predictable cycles. We are in the stage of weak men. Weak men create hard times; hard times create strong me; strong men create good times; good times create weak men.
100%!!!!! I'm also an educator and everything you said it spot on.
Agree
Completely agree! 👍
Ever tried Homeschooling? My grandchildren are thriving.
I don't need to. I am not against homeschooling however, children coming in to public schools after homeschooling still lack stamina to do hard things. And they generally have trouble socializing. If homeschooling works for you that is wonderful!
Yes it starts in the Education System. I just saw that our County and District hires and retains plenty of H1-B’s. Schools have been so focused on putting boys into girls bathrooms and affirming their delusion propelling dei obsessed cults > the reality and truth is that we live in a competitive world and this educational ingrained bs is useless in real life. 🙏🏼 go MAGA 🔥
It starts at home. Parents have to stop coddling their children and making excuses for their poor behavior and performance. Parents must be more involved with their children's teachers and schools. Schools must quit coddling children and get back to teaching things that will help a child excel, instead of being more concerned with their feelings.
Well, schools have become soft because of litigious, demanding parents who are raising soft kids. Parents do need to be involved by holding their children accountable when the teacher/school sees a problem.
The problem with H1B visas started before the education system turned to crap. Now, it's only made the problem worse.
It is not just tech jobs. Scroll the database.
Agree with everything thing you say. Loomer comes off like click bait and just wanting to be a flamethrower. I don’t see her presenting rational and logical arguments for her positions. I think she often defames and could be held accountable for libel. Tabloid accusations can damage reputations.
Loomer is a flamethrower crazy bitch, but she’s Trump’s flamethrower crazy bitch…. She’s a lot of things, I don’t always like her style, but she’s a dog with a bone… Elon and Vivek won’t be able to sit down after she’s done ripping their asses. Sound advice, when backed in a corner, bet on Loomer.
I would encourage people to read Nicole Shanahan’s take on HB1 and tech and immigration. It’s a whole thread on X. https://x.com/nicoleshanahan/status/1872491541811671494?s=46&t=m1n-AnrFKG326AYNgl4NWA
Just read it! I like her ideas about Singapore.
Just read it as well. She is an asset to the debate, for sure. Great insight.
Excellent info on there. Thanks for sharing! ❤️
I worked in immigration law as a paralegal while I was in college, so I understand the baseline for working visas, investment visas, and the qualifications needed to obtain both or either. However, while “he” might have his reasons to request or require certain standards, he has no logical or intelligent reason (nor does anyone else) to censor people, period. We were born with a mouth so we can speak, chew, and breathe as needed. Not a single person should have the power to force someone to close their mouth. That is unjustifiable, unless I am mistaken that is the “big” picture in this article, among other slithering concepts that are coming to light.
If Loomer is claiming to be a journalist (which she does) why isn’t she held to the same standards of truth/defamation/libel that others are. She just says whatever she wants to, insinuates all sorts of scandal and rarely has proof for what she claims.
Agree. The last few things I’ve seen from her both in person (the attack on Milo Y) and on X have all been unhinged and vulgar. She’s not artfully crafting insightful, and helpful responses, she’s just shouting and ranting.
I can’t attach a photo but supposedly loomer gets paid by an account that was also put in timeout as well as the others that get paid to post for account. And also she is so dramatic it was a 12 hour timeout from what I can gather along with all the other accounts. The chances of her reporting on that though are 0%!
Personally, I’m not a fan of hers, but I’m not married to her, so I don’t care what she does. What I do care about is censorship. There is no cause effective and logical enough to censor her or anyone else. Discredit or question someone by using information and logical reasoning, not by censoring them. People will still believe what they want, so why censor?
Elon thought he could shut her up… lmao. Absolutely the worst thing he could ever do is piss that girl off. She’s an attack dog, specifically Trump’s attack dog. Trump likes her because she’s loyal and she’s basically his personal private investigator. She digs and won’t stop digging until she knows what your 5th great grandfather did when he was 15 years old. She lit DeSantis’s campaign on fire before they even got going and destroyed games and traps being played during the primaries to screw Trump over.
Thank you for your breakdown - the timing is weird. Watching this play out, everyone has a skill and I think we are over these gaslighting theatrics
Re: the supposition that there is poor STEM (science, technology, engineering and math) education in the U.S. ... it's hard to buy that idea, given we've heard about the focus on STEM for at least the last 20 years and that we still have record numbers of foreign students coming to the U.S. for just such education. The evidence points to the fact that there are plenty of American-born and educated STEM grads, but there's preferential treatment for imports, particularly from India. The numbers are there on the H-1Bs. Once they are added up for years of this gamed program, it's a lot of Indian imports.
In FY 2022, 72.6 percent of approved H-1B applications were given to Indians, with China being the second largest recipient of the program. Meantime, BA degrees with a STEM focus rose from 22 percent of BA degrees awarded in the U.S. to 30 percent between 2006 and 2015, which was the highest level since detailed record-keeping of this area started in 1987.
According to census.gov (article by Jennifer Cheeseman Day and Anthony Martinez, 2 June 2021):
“Majoring in science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) does not guarantee a job in a STEM occupation but it typically means a bump in pay.
“Among the 50 million employed college graduates ages 25 to 64 in 2019, 37 percent reported a bachelor’s degree in science or engineering, but only 14 percent worked in a STEM occupation, according to the Census Bureau’s 2019 American Community Survey one-year estimates.
“This translates into less than a third (28%) of STEM-educated workers actually working in a STEM job.”
The tech area is captive to multiple large Indian companies that handle HR on a huge scale.
From long-time immigration writer Joe Guzzardi:
“Writing for the Economic Policy Institute, Howard University public policy associate professor and ‘Outsourcing America’ author Ron Hira explained how Tata and others, namely Infosys, manipulate U.S. H-1B regulations to displace American engineers. They claim the H-1B is used: 1) to recruit and hire worldwide the best and brightest workers even though only 21 percent of Tata employees and 15 percent of Infosys employees have advanced degrees; 2) to fill skills gaps in the U.S. workforce and 3) as a way to retain talented foreign students with advanced degrees who received their education and training in the U.S., previous administrations’ favorite talking point deception.
“In 2013, Tata paid $30 million to settle a wage theft dispute involving 13,000 foreign workers, and Infosys paid a record $34 million to settle a visa fraud case after it committed ‘systemic visa fraud and abuse of immigration processes.’ Companies with an established pattern of malfeasance like Tata and Infosys should not be allowed to participate in U.S. temporary foreign worker programs like the H-1B.”
There have been many stories about the abuse of the H-1B and how it’s been used to undermine U.S. workers. See displacement stories of jobs lost by Americans at Amazon, Apple, Disney, Google, Microsoft, South-ern California Edison, the University of California and many more organizations.
So at the start of the employment pipeline, you have new college grads not getting the tech jobs, because they’re going to foreign workers, and at more advanced levels, you also have Americans being displaced – a process that has gone on for years, with many American workers let go and replaced by foreign workers.
At some point, Americans realize there’s no point pursuing these jobs, because they will never be hired when there’s a built-in bias for Indians to hire Indians. And the “best in the brightest” is a myth – plenty of stories of one Indian in the U.S. needing to talk to three Indians in India to resolve a problem. And if we indeed are "taking" the best & the brightest from around the world, do we not care about the "brain drain" for those countries?
There’s not a problem just in tech, but in medicine. Increasing numbers of medical residencies (which a doctor must have in order to practice medicine) are going to foreign doctors. But that's a whole other tale of woe ...
This!! And I have to admit, I think Jessica missed the mark on this issue- showing she’s more of a cultural reporter than a substantive one (not a dig, just putting things in perspective). I think this comment is far more concise, informational and important than a fight between lunatic Loomer and Rocket Scientist Musk. Sorry Jessica… Doge will succeed, Trump will, Vivek and Elon- no matter what today’s distractions are. 😉
Jess is pro free speech. I don’t see this post about the squabble, although it does give backstory and details. To me, it’s about censorship and X supposedly being the platform of free speech and then seeing the fallout with Laura. Feels like there’s more to it though because Musk shared the policy info about spam so perhaps there’s some spammy things going on with her account.
Yes!! The American education system is absolutely broken and we should all be concerned. However, parents don’t want to stop their own lives and put down their phones to acknowledge what’s going on right under their noses. They expect teachers and administrators to teach their kids basic manners and it’s not working.
Social Emotional Learning (SEL) along with Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) have ruined the American education system all the way from preschool through college. Loomer doesn’t appear to have kids. She should probably ask more questions to enhance her understanding of where the problem is really coming from before making another post. Those of us who are well-informed, who have been long in the fight and made real progress within our communities don’t take people like her seriously and, frankly, we never will.
Just so we’re clear: I don’t like What Elon and Vivek are saying, but they’re not wrong from a Human Resources perspective. If you want a better future for your children, you need to start with your schools.
Absolutely spot on!! I truly do not feel that Loomer’s rants are helpful-right now!! After Trump is inaugurated will be the time for “healthy” debate. Right now we need to be united behind the goal of getting Trumps appointees confirmed and Trump in office!!
Thank you ❤️ you said this so much better than I could.
By the way loomer appears to have her blue check back
Do you think she will address the company she posts for and gets paid? If in fact it’s true?
Well said and I agree!
Wow. Very well said. Thank you. I agree with all points.
To further expound your first point, H1B1 -01 visas are for extraordinary talent, in the "genius" category. Elon is NOT using that category to bring in talent. He's exploiting the H1B1 standard visa to bring in "talent" engineers at below market rate. And they and others want unfettered access to keep doing that without limit. They're absolutely exploiting slave scab labor at American workers' expense.
I don’t see that being the case. Personal knowledge of American senior engineers at Nvidia making roughly 200-250k. Reported all over X etc visa holders for lower level positions to senior level are making 170-250k. Seems fair to me. I don’t think Elon has a problem paying people for their work. Vs finding people to do the work and work ethic. People are posting hundreds and hundreds of open positions for engineering jobs so idk 🤷🏼♀️ as a society we can’t even get congress to vote in person so imo we have a cultural and an eduction problem. But that’s not to say every person should want to be an engineer or go into stem maybe as a culture it’s ok that we put value on other things. However, we should also be able to draw talents from other places. Personally I love the visa programs and think they are needed but also agree they should be reformed.
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Best comment. Thank you for the breakdown.
Re #2, the S in STEM is "science". There will be no prayer of "fixing" STEM education in America if the incoming party in power remains hostile to science, favors personal opinion over scientific consensus, is openly antagonistic toward institutions of higher education, and frames the college-educated as "the elite". We can't have it both ways.
I appreciate your point about the importance of science in STEM, but I respectfully disagree that we can’t have it both ways. Science evolves, and history shows that some “consensus” has been influenced by external pressures or proven wrong over time. To truly fix STEM, we need independent agencies that prioritize the public good and foster critical thinking. Supporting science means valuing its adaptability while ensuring it remains free from bias and external influence.
So impressed with your ability to expound on a debate that is unfolding as we speak so thoroughly.
I’ve thought really highly of both Elon and Vivek until now. I haven’t written them off yet, but something smells bad here.
What America needs is a few good years— 5-10 at the least— of true America-first reform. Immigration should be on hold (I say this as the daughter of an immigrant), education and exceptionalism should be prioritized, we need to fund our military to promote peace, and we need to pour money into our infrastructure. I’m all for a meritocratic immigration system in the future, but it feels suspiciously self-serving for Elon and Vivek (who was also a billionaire business owner prior to politics, lest we forget) to be promoting this right now. We need a PAUSE on everything that isn’t fixing our country, starting with our elections.
Thanks for your thoughts, time, and research on this, Jess and HIH team!!
But is legal immigration/visa holders really the problem? I’d like for my kids to work and live in another country. I feel like the real issue is so much more complicated which involves being outspent by foreign countries on Amazon and Facebook/IG - everyone is outsourcing whether they actually come and live here or work remote from other countries. Amazon might as well be Temu. It’s the ripple effect of small/medium business getting killed in every industry by foreign powerhouses and Amazon and Facebook allowed to do it. And businesses struggling to pay wages and keep businesses afloat.
It’s not *really* the problem, especially when it’s based on merit, but I read a stat recently that over 6,000 tech company employees (I think it was at Google but I can’t remember the citation) were laid off and replaced by 5,400 H1B immigrants who get paid much less and work much more. I think we need to protect legal immigrants from situations that are exploitative.
I also think we need a period of healing for this country and the willingness to make sacrifices to take care of our people. Again, I’m so proud to be the daughter of a legal immigrant, but I do wish we’d put America first for a minute.
H1B visas push wages down overall. Amazon uses them for warehouse employees so they can pay less than American workers. There’s a reason under Trump when he cut a bunch of them that wages increased for the first time in 40 years above inflation.
I entered the melee on X yesterday, and found that by the end of the night my opinion had shifted somewhat. These are my conclusions:
1. Vivek is correct in his overall observations.
Most of the people weighing in on this seem to have no connection to university, tech, or Indian culture. Having connections to all three, I can say this...most Americans have no idea how hard many Indian students and early-career employees work. Many Americans would say it's child abuse how much these kids study, and how much tutoring they have at a young age. As I understand it, Vivek was not saying that American culture is inferior in all ways...he was simply saying that aspects of American culture make it so that we don't produce a ton of freakishly-good STEM talent. These Indian kids are basically trained to be engineering machines from a young age. I think it's good that American kids have more balance, but don't be shocked when your well-balanced kid is out-competed for a job by an Indian STEM student who has been doing nothing but studying math and science from the age of six. (The Indian engineers I know lament how bad they are at writing, literature, history, etc, because they were not taught much of that in school, and were not given time to develop these interests. Vivek is not saying Indians are superior in all subjects. He's saying they are good at this one thing--STEM--because they obsessively focus on it.) What is great is that America can attract the best talent from around the world. We attract many of these freakishly-good engineers, get them to live in our country and spend money here, and many become citizens. Our win!
2. It's fair for Loomer to criticize the VISA process and demand it be changed. Maybe it should be changed. What is not okay is making vulgar claims about Indian culture and Indian people. We can reform the immigration system without being racist and without alienating entire voting blocs (and the highest-earning group in the United States, which is Indian-Americans!)
3. So, I was pretty much against Loomer because of her vile rhetoric all day yesterday, but then she lost her checkmark and subscribers. If it wasn't retaliation for her views, you'd think Elon would have said so, because he's very outspoken. Elon claimed that X was a platform where you could disagree with him, and say all sorts of offensive things, without being censored. I agreed with Elon when he said that Loomer is just a troll to be ignored. I do not agree with her being censored or demonetized in any way. That put a really bad taste in my mouth, and makes me more sympathetic towards Loomer.
I agree - went in thinking one way and when loomer was finally put in time out was able to see other comments that started making sense like you reiterated above. I saw some comments saying that a company she posts and gets paid by was put in timeout and consequently effected all accounts that were paid by this company. I have a screenshot but can’t attach. I think we have bigger problems than the visa holders - our focus should be on illegal immigrants first.
I think Loomer's rhetoric yesterday showed that she doesn't understand tech, didn't understand the nuances of Vivek's argument about culture, and that she can be pretty racist (I don't like calling people racist because the left throws that term around loosely, but I can find no other way to describe her specific attacks on Indian people). HOWEVER, I think she should be free to spew that vile stuff on a platform that claims not to censor anyone. Elon could have looked like a hero by just leaving her alone and letting the debate play out. Now it looks like he put his finger on the scale, and that will erode trust in him and in X as a platform.
Elon had a temper tantrum and censored a woman most people don't like and thought it would get swept under the rug because he's Elon. Elon has done a lot of trolling himself over the years. This was a big move by Elon, and just because he's couch surfing at Mar-a-Lago and is a current BFF to Trump doesn't mean we're not going to call him out on this.
I'm not 100% certain that Elon took away Loomer's checkmark and unenrolled her subscribers, but it sure looks he did, doesn't it? What I thought was his standard was that any speech that was not illegal would be allowed. I was really upset by what Loomer was posting and stopped reading it for my own mental health, but she didn't break any laws--and if she did, file a police report, and let them deal with it. This will have a stifling effect for speech on X for sure.
Wow….very interesting comments. I honestly think this is all CHILDISH, Elon and Vivek are correct. Laura Loomer seems to be a disrupter and a bit racist.
Come on peeps, let us not forget….we won and TRUMP is going to Make America Great Again! This in fighting is giving the Democrats a hard on.
Tawny, we're not infighting, we're standing up to a man and his company that said free speech is free speech. Then silenced a patron of his company when her free speech did not align with his. Loomer can be loco for Cocoa Puffs for all I care, she's not threatening violence or engaging in hate speech, she is exercising her right to free speech and she was shut down.
MAGAts eating each other the way RFKjr ate that bbq’d dog. I love it. You bastards feast away.
It is called healthy conversations and debate. That is how good decisions can be formed. Something that the group think Democrat party has forgotten.
This is such a great piece. Wowza. I’ve been watching this unfold for weeks now, and the only conclusion I’ve come to is that many of us, like myself, have become so highly intuitive to bullshit that any and every misstep will be questioned, analyzed, and processed until we have rational decisions based on structure, not emotions. If “he” thinks that money buys the newly transformed Americans, he’s got a surprise coming. He may operate in a vacuum in business, but he won’t succeed in politics. That goes for anyone who is stepping into the White House in 2025. We’re prepared.
Exactly.
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Here’s the thing…there is no one person that knows everything about everything, so these disagreements absolutely should happen. Debate should happen and disagreements are inevitable. However, they are all acting like this is high school. Don’t say stuff like someone is cockblocking, don’t even have a term like MAGA loyalist. Definitely don’t de-platform someone.
Elon Musk is a snake in the grass. And all his buddies are too. I WISH Trump wouldn’t have him so close, Musk and his views ruin the MAGA movement. We are not for big pharma and their BS. I am praying RFK can stand firm in MAHA. Laura Loomer can be a little odd but at least she is calling a spade a spade! Thanks for being a voice and sharing Jess!!
The H1B issue is a big problem. There was recently a piece in Bloomberg about Cognizant being sued for discrimination against Americans to the benefit of Indian H1Bs. I believe Disney was sued for something similar.
Tech companies are laying off thousands of Americans and still bringing in H1Bs, how does that make sense? Maybe new grads are under educated in tech. What about all the people that have been laid off and replaced though. Are we to believe that they weren’t qualified to do the jobs that they had been doing?
It seems like gaslighting for corporatism.
Bingo!!! I am the source of the quote above in support of Loomer. I was very successful in my 20 year career working for GE when it was considered, "the most admired company," before Jeff Immelt ruined it. As soon as Obama was elected, they started planning the mass layoff of career employees making a decent wage. Immediately after the layoff, my same position, along with that of my colleagues, was posted. Before the layoff, I staffed my large scale projects with seasoned IT professionals from all over the world, as my projects were mostly in Europe, but spanned Asia, as well. However, about 2-3 years prior to the layoff, we were directed start "off-shoring" some of the work, where I was told to use companies in India, who staffed using junior programmers straight out of University with zero experience. I probably still have some of the scant resumes I was provided to choose from. They charged .10 cents on the dollar for what I paid my programmers, and their work reflected it. My seasoned guys spent more time cleaning up after them than it would have taken them to do the work in the first place. The folks in corporate didn't learn their lesson with the extremely costly project delays, and moved onto the H1B visas, replacing skilled American workers by the thousands.
Prior to my work at GE, I did contract work, of which there was an abundance. Thus, I never looked for my next contract until I was ready to work. After GE, I would send out resumes for months without one response, as there were so many loopholes for staffers to avoid the "requirement" to hire US Citizens first. I'd respond to an email from a recruiter within minutes, and not hear back, as mearly sending a mass email qualified as an "attempt to recruit a US citizen."
I can say with 100% certainty, that it was all about saving a buck at the expense of decimating the dreams of tens of thousands of American Citizens. Not only was the economy impacted by tens of thousands of displaced Americans, but the paychecks to the foreign workers that replaced them were sent offshore to their families instead of recirculating in the US economy. It's almost as if it was another part of Obama's plan to destroy the United States.
Came here for this reason. I worked in tech and my husband still does. He’s a computer engineer. Layoffs have been happening for years. Now his company is cutting middle management layers. He’s been due for a promotion for over three years, has no upward mobility and is constantly being given more work for same pay to make up for the layoffs. He’s being told to “work the job he wants” without bringing given the title or pay that should come with it. We’re basically just happy he has a job as we know so many across the different companies who have been let go in the past several years.
It’s awful, I’m sorry. My husband manages a mix of H1Bs and outsourced. He just babysits and cleans up their messes. He’s been laid off many times over the years. He would like to leave but then he would have no seniority and likely be in the same position.
About the engineers and not thinking we have any here who are American is BULLSHIT! These kids graduating right now are smart as can be but STILL CANT FIND JOBS! I know this because my son is at a very prestigious University in Boston and couldn’t find an internship to save his life as well as his whole damn graduating class.
There are plenty of international students from all over the world in his class as well and cannot find jobs . So I don’t know where the hell these jobs are, but I sure like to know.
Yes, the kids who just graduated are having a hard time getting into tech. My son was able to get several internships while in school, two for very prestigious companies which he thought would help him get a full-time job. Unfortunately, in both companies the entire teams he worked for were laid off early 2024! Men, women, American, and Indian and of various levels of experience. Where are these jobs that no one can fill? I know a dozen developers right now in need of jobs.
Agreed!
I think observing Elon Musk with hopeful, healthy skepticism is the move. I remember the things you dropped about him during the Johnny Depp trial that makes me question his desire for neuralink and the reasoning behind it. I also don’t believe any person is as altruistic as he paints himself to be. He deserves praise for his help winning the election, but a lot of others deserve that praise as well.
I feel mostly the same about Vivek Ramaswamy. Although, his motivation seems different. He was likely the nerd and not the jock, but he is also not wrong. As a teacher I watched parents put all their energy into sports, to the point of obsession-kids missed holidays with family, vacations, weekends, proms, graduation-all for a “sports career” that typically made it to community college on scholarship, if that. If the debate centered around kids needing balance, I’d agree with those against Vivek. However, what I observe is most parents putting obsessive focus and energy into pursuits that won’t produce long-term success. In this, Vivek is right. The majority of Americans, especially MAGA Americans, worship sports/athletes, popularity, etc.
Trump is no one’s savior. IMO, he’s a man that is good at negotiation, but he can’t save anyone. The problem with this movement to me is everyone in the “circle” believes they got Trump elected. I however, think God alone did that. There seems a real possibility for change with Trump in office, but the powers outside our control, the “principalities,” if you will, aren’t going to allow change without a major fight. Trump bends toward narcissism, he starts believing his own hype, and forgets he’s only a man. When that happens he likely doesn’t listen to anyone that tells him the truth-especially when he doesn’t like that truth.
Loomer rubbed me the wrong way the first time I saw her speak. She has TDOD-Trump Derangement Obsessive Disorder-she worships Trump as her god. That’s apparent in her inability to realize that by saying Elon bought his way into Trump’s sphere, she’s basically saying DT is for sale. She attacks without thought, or that’s how it seems at least. She may not be wrong in what’s she’s doing, but I can’t help but think she could’ve used better tactics. I’m not sure though. I think she is toxic to Trump, but I’m aware I may be wrong.
Ultimately this all seems like chaos and a distraction for the person who’s supposed to lead our country back to greatness. It would likely be better if he allowed some quiet in his life. This whole thing seems like a King holding court, and DT is not a king-he’s a public servant. If he doesn’t remember that, the country won’t fall tomorrow, but it will fall.
MAHA is the most important faction in all of this to me, but I’m not sure Trump agrees. Health matter the most-because if we are healthy, we all live to fight another day, God willing.
All in all, I have one Savior, Jesus, everyone else is merely human. Vivek, Elon, Trump, Laura Loomer -none are so important that the US will fall or rise without them.
Trump himself has said he is not our savior. But I believe he is the chosen one. He is standing in the way of the globalist elites and for that they want him gone. So yes, Trump is saving us in this spiritual battle.
Trump needs to demonstrate his signature strength and put Elon in his place.
This infiltration and shift in priorities isn't just a slap in the face to mega donors who backed Trump when it wasn't easy, its a slap in the face to everyday Americans who were scared to post "Vote Trump" as their Facebook status but did anyways and lost loved ones for it.
We voted for a revolution, not the same old bullshit. They need to be held accountable to their promises.
Well shit. I have been waiting for the other shoe to drop and it dropped harder than expected. I've been leery of Elon - mostly due to his relationship with Amber - I didn't trust him - ditto for Vivek. They were "too good to be true." The fact Elon made me agree with Laura Loomer and Ann Coulter is almost unforgivable. I think Elon and Laura need to hook up, knock it out to clear their sexual tension, and kumbaya this shit and get back to being on the side of America. The RFK softening is equally troubling. I have empathy for you since you are personally involved with all parties and calling them out for their discrepancies can't be fun. This is why we love and respect you.
Also Coffee and Covid (Jeff Childers) who I linked above says this maga civil war is a “color revolution” of sorts and people should not play into it. And that Loomer is acting as part of it. Illegal immigration is a much bigger issue than legal immigration of tech bros.
Thanks for posting the link to Jeff Childers’ Coffee and Covid! I sent today’s Substack post directly to Jessica because I completely agree with his take on the matter.
The art of compromise and negotiations has all but been lost because of instant access to the wheeling and dealing that is done within the government (as of now Mar-a-largo) keep your friends close and your enemies closer….kinda tired of the obsession of quick news, how many clicks (followers) and likes and reposts and comments can I get!… oh ya where’s my blue check and my money! Are they really in it for the journalism???? Boring… seems like holiday family drama…over it. 😒
Loomer is Nuzzi 2.0. There is some truth to all sides. But her narcissistic style makes everything about herself. She is not interested in solutions. Her self proclaimed leader of MAGA and as the ONLY true supporter of Trump shows her true motives. To stir shit up and distract everyone. She is a trouble maker at heart.
Totally agree!! Jessica, remember how we all thought Mike had a really good read on Nuzzi. Be careful.
Bingo! That is exactly the person I was thinking of!
💯🎯🎯🎯 ABSOLUTELY AGREE!
Loomer is Trump’s attack dog. She does the dirty work and investigates things for him. She’s valuable to him and he doesn’t mind the noise. Lol
There is no proof Trump likes Loomer. And with Trump siding with Elon this may put her on the outs even more. She says she’s doing Trumps work but that is only self proclaimed.
Trump wouldn’t have her on the plane like he does if he didn’t. Trump likes people others think he shouldn’t… he makes the rules. I’ve said for years, bet on Loomer.
Late to the party today, so forgive please. Thank you, Ok Bob, for discussing the differences between the two issues, as I see this exactly as you do. I even just posted about it, in short form, on X. Your breakdown of the issues and the players is spot on, and there are valid points on both sides. We must, as a country, address the issues in our education system at large, if we hope to get back to being able to relying on US talent. I agree with Musk and Vivek on this issue. I like Laura Loomer and appreciate all she has done for MAGA, and she does make some valid points. Wish she would tone down some of the terms she uses in her posts as it detracts from her message, at least in my book.
Bottom line, this is a discussion that needs to be had. Hopefully we can, this time around, not break apart at the seams before we get out of the gate. I don't worship Musk, Ramaswamy or Loomer, or anyone else. My belief is in Trump and what he can do for this country. Let's none of us great distracted by the small skirmishes on the sidelines among minor players and try to help Trump fix our country and make America great again.