I found it:) it’s in the messages! There is about 4,000 comments. You have to go to the message icon on the app. It was confusing to me too at first ☺️
I completely agree! She may have continued being in a trauma response when morning came and she came to the realization what occurred at the home. Bless those surviving roommates, family, and friends!
Absolutely insane - all of it. And the fact he applied to be an intern with the cops a month or two before the murders?!?!?
But I’m most struck by the fact he walked directly toward the surviving roommate, only to walk past her. Did he notice she was there?? Why would he leave her unharmed, especially as a witness who could identify him. That said, the verbiage used doesn’t exactly state he made eye contact with her or was aware of her. Maybe she only opened the door slightly and was peeking out?
my thoughts as well, thinking he possibly did not really see her maybe it was extra dark where she was standing? maybe he was focused on heading toward the sliding glass door
My thought as well. Who knows what goes through a person's mind after murdering another? Are they focused on just getting out the door, on speed of leaving, thinking about 'what do I need to to next?' And so on.
If the roommate opened the door 6 inches or so & if there were no lights on, it's possible that he walked right by without noticing her.
If the audio released with the speculation of what was said is true and they did know him I'm predicting... he went there with the sole intention of killing Kaylee but she was in a room with another girl so he killed them both and then was spotted by Xana and her boyfriend so he killed them both so there were no witnesses. As far as the survivor that spotted him, either he didn't see her or maybe she didn't know him or at that point he was like crap I killed three people I wasn't planning to and got the hell out of there. If he did see her I'm definitely puzzled why he just walked right past her.
I think his adrenaline must have been through the roof. Four murders in less than 10 minutes - I bet he never even saw her and was tunnel visioned trying to get out.
My thoughts, too. Could have been dark where she was but the fact that she was able to make out his eyebrows sticking out of a (presumably) ski mask in a dark hallway means she was close enough. I also wonder at her state of mind that she went back to bed and didn't call 9-1-1, she must've been in a state of shock as she noted.
I’m actually extremely concerned by the report of the roommate. She thinks she hears someone crying, sees a weird man inside the house at 4am, and yet the police aren’t called until after noon the next day? Weird.
I need to amend my comment. All these comments have made me think and I honestly am just heartbroken for these remaining roommates-the trauma they’ve endured
Maybe trauma, but I also have have a 15 year old and a 17 year old so I hang out with teens all the time and as a whole their friends are wildly unobservant. (It worries me.) I think it's because of tech and the pandemic. If they were up late, drinking, maybe doing drugs, I can totally see my kids' friends making this same choice.
I agree. The younger generation can detach...in the sense of I see videos of someone recording a horrific circumstance rather calling the police or helping. I always wonder how can you sit there and watch this happening as if it’s not happening? Maybe tech has made things unreal seem so real that some cannot even determine what’s real anymore? It’s all so incredibly sad regardless
I’ve been saying this to everyone who is sus’d out by D. People need to stop villainizing het to this degree, she is a kid who lived in a party house with people coming and going. We don’t know what she might have been on. I read she thought she might have been hallucinating and has a history of ptsd. Personally I was prescribed ambien after an SA in college, I lived in housing that was like Grand Central station and I would hallucinate / sleepwalk due to the ambien. We just don’t know her individual circumstances. I think she peeked out and saw a guy and prolly thought K or M brought him home from the bar and he was leaving; he creeped her out, wearing a mask (people do still mask regardless of one’s personal stance, esp w cases going up and sick season/ holidays were approaching) in black, it was dark and she probably didn’t see blood, and locked the door cause she had a weird feeling and went to bed. No kid is going to jump to the conclusion their friends were all just slaughtered. She slept 8 hours, yeah it was noon but hello college kids sleep in on sundays if they are up til 4. Nothing abt her actions is that unusual to me as someone who can relate to their living situation.
Maybe she was drunk/high or had illicit drugs in her room? Maybe she was waiting to come down from a high or didn’t want cops coming and finding drugs in her room and delayed calling due to that? Maybe she thought she’d get in trouble if she called the police? Just a theory. No one knows yet. Hopefully we get more details.
Pretty sure it’s a well known fact inebriated individuals have impaired judgement. Due to my work I’ve frequently been around people who use drugs. They do not make the best choices. I’ve seen a lot of bad choices made to hide the drugs they’ve had in their possession. You can’t think “why did this person not make a clear judgement choice?!?!” when they are not physically capable of doing so in that state.
I’ve been saying this. It has made me think about the chapter in Malcolm Gladwell’s “talking w strangers” where he uses the Brock T case to explain alcohol leading to cognitive myopia esp in college kids and how they may make decisions based on the moment rather than paying attention to cues that might indicate a broader situation. It so easily imo explains how D may have written off all the random stuff she heard and seeing B and gone to bed.
How was she to know they had been stabbed ? That's not something a typical person ever experiences, let alone the first thing her mind would go to when seeing a stranger in a house full of strangers all the time.
But seeing a strange person w/a ski mask on is not a normal sight. Especially one covered in blood. And they had a ton of lights hanging around the patio that illuminated the patio Im sure lit up inside the kitchen, how could she not see blood? He had just stabbed 4 ppl? Several times. According to PD reports, it was the bloodiest crime scene experienced cops had ever seen?
It’s hard to imagine but since we weren’t there and we only know what we know … speculating about a young woman whose 4 roommates were murdered seems heartless in my opinion. Maybe she’d done mushrooms and thought she was hallucinating…. If he wore gloves to take out the trash, maybe he had something on top of his clothes he removed. I’d hate to think this broken hearted girl coming across speculation about her. We can be patient for more info I think and speculate all we want about the murderer.
I think they were all inebriated - she ordered the door dash at 4am. I bet there are other details that weren’t in the affidavit. These kids are so young and I’m sure have led blessed lives up until this point. She may not have realized the seriousness? Definitely think there is more to it
Trauma is weird and freeze is definitely a “normal” response-flight or fight being the more prolific ones. Her brain most likely tried to rationalize the unthinkable and reframe. Her subconscious was intuiting the DANGER signal: the very tangible scent of blood, the sounds she noted, her eyes registering inane details like eyebrows and a mask. When the adrenaline evaporated, she could have fell into a catatonic-like sleep or she could have been rooted in fear that he was going to be back for her. We simply don’t know what she did in that time, but her actions very obviously could have saved her life.
It’s easy to sit in our safe-space brain and think of the things we would do in this situation, because we are not operating from a life-or-death mindset. Unless we are faced with that horrifying reality, we simply do not know what our trauma response would be.
Terrifying. A few months ago I was approached 2x in one night while walking my dog in a neighborhood I've been in for all of my 51 years. I won't get into it the details but it was terrifying. I had 2 cameras outside my house at the time, I looked back at the footage from the previous week and saw that I had been being stalked by not one, but 2 cars as - as soon as my neighbors left for the day it would begin. Also found a video of a man on foot iny driveway, looking down the street from where he walked from like he was seeing if I could see something down there and walking around the front of my house trying to see in my front door - in broad daylight. There's more but it was so frightening that this had been going on for at least the previous week and I had been utterly blind to it and ignored things I shouldn't have because I was comfortable in my nearly lifelong suburban neighborhood home. I'm not anymore, I won't walk my dog anymore, I've installed many, many more cameras and a full alarm system with panic button. I've spent literally 1000s on security and weapons and I'm still nervous 24/7. Oh, and the useless police wouldn't even watch the videos I had, acted like I was bothering them - even when the neighbor came over when she saw them there and told them a man in white car had been watching them load up their kids to leave at her sisters around the corner. Even with a neighbor verifying what I was said and had on film they told me I should "maybe look into seeing a psychologist". It's been horrifying, I don't sleep anymore. I totally understand why you would sell your house and move. If someone were ever in my home I think I would simply die of shock and I would definitely move immediately.
Glad you are ok. I've had several stalkers in my college days. Scary crap. Like he would send roses and poems to the bar I was going to be out at that night before I even got there. Like how did he know? He thought we were in a relationship. I kindly said I've never spoken to you in my life. You are scaring the shit out of me. Please stop. Then the owner of the club was my friend and wanted to throw him out.(being protective) i said please don't. I don't want him mad at me. He did throw him out. I was terrified.
Great comment. AND he did come back! At 9am. He may not have re entered or approached the house, but he definitely went back. Imagine that poor darling, Dylan. So afraid, and knowing now, that he returned!
Didn't she lock her door after she saw him? Don't know if she had been drinking but IF she was v tired maybe that + the locked door gave her a sense of security & she dropped off to sleep.
Also, I thought that a lot of ppl were always in and out of the house all the time. Perhaps seeing someone that she didn't recognize wasn't that big of a deal.
And if his mask was a COVID type, that isn't unusual either.
I think it does make sense. I speculate they were all intoxicated coming home drunk at 2 am, up till 3-4 am, it’s a party house, 6 people were staying there, and then they all passed out and didn’t wake up until 7 hours later. And yeah I think he probably didn’t see her but she saw him.
She could have also thought it was just some guy her roommates had brought home so didn’t call the police thinking she didn’t want to cause trouble. Young kids don’t think like adults, especially if they’ve been drinking or if the roommates have a pattern of drinking/drugs. I don’t think it’s sus, I think it’s scary as hell either way!
I read on another IG account who has been covering the story since it broke, that this particular roommate suffers from PTSD & nightmares (from childhood trauma). It's possible she thought she was having a nightmare (especially if alcohol/drugs were also a factor). I feel awful for the remaining two roommates who will likely be haunted by the images of their slain friends for the rest of their life.
This is also our generation of children that grew up with lockdown drills and taught to hide, freeze and make no noise for fear of attracting the intruder.
I didn't even consider this. Such a great point and a reminder of how crappy it is to be a kid growing up in America today. When I was in elementary school all we worried about/practiced was what to do in case of a tornado or fire.
I got into a heated discussion about this too. Because I agree with you. Like- I think I would have had the wherewithal to go back into my room and call 911 but. Bars, staying out until 2:00am, possibly drugs? She might have thought she was dreaming or whatever. Then slept it off. I don’t know.
I agree that based on the information that we have - that it is weird. But I think it is also important to remember that the information in the probable cause affidavit is the bare bones, they put in just enough information to prove to a judge that an arrest warrant is necessary. There will be a lot more information that has been kept from the PCA. All we know thus far is that she saw him and locked her door. We don’t know what her actions were after that point. Perhaps she did try to call the police, perhaps she didn’t have her phone charged, perhaps she was traumatised (she apparently has PTSD) ... perhaps she decided to hide and fell asleep, so many things we actually do not know. We know that 4 students were brutally murdered, at that point in time - she wouldn’t know that. What we do know is that BK is accused of taking these young lives and that the room mates survived. I have no doubt that if he saw her - he would have killed her too. At this point I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt, she is not the villain in this ‘story’. Her life is forever changed by the events that night.
When I was in high school, I often slept in my living room on the couch because I liked to fall asleep watching TV. I awoke to someone touching my chest gently and they jumped back behind my head and crouched in the corner. I closed my eyes, remained quiet, and pretended to be asleep. They then walked out of my living room toward my front door as I watched them in the shadows. They walked through the front door and said, “ya, she’s asleep” and then slammed the door shut. I ran to my room, locked the door, and didn’t come out until the morning which is then when I went upstairs to tell my parents what had happened. They were freaked out and thought at first that I was crazy for not coming up to their room to tell them what had happened. But, to me, getting to my bedroom and locking the door was the safest option because the stairs to their room were less than a foot away from my front door where the intruder exited. When you are in fear, you are somewhat in shock and paralyzed. I have the most sympathy for this girl and completely understand her shutting off. You never know what you would do until you’re in a scary situation and luckily for most, they will never have to experience what she did.
A similar thing happened to my Aunt. A short time after her husband passed away from cancer she awoke to a man sitting on the age of her bed. She woke up and saw him but at first thought it was her late husband visiting her. But at the same time felt scared and an uncomfortable presence. She closed her eyes tight and pretended to be asleep and eventually fell back to sleep. A short time later there was an article in her local paper about a man in a flannel shirt (what he was wearing in her bedroom) breaking in to peoples home and sitting on the edge of their beds while they slept. It wasn’t until then that she realized it was a stranger in her room that night! But just goes to show it is a normal response to freeze in fear and just hide/hope nothing happens or allow your mind to make sense of it (her telling herself it was her late husband visiting her!)
I heard last night that Dylan locked herself in the same room as the other surviving roommate. When they did wake up they saw Ethan . The both ran out of the house screaming and hysterical. One of them tried to call 911 but was too hysterical . The other one fainted . When 911 showed up they thought they were there for the roommate who passed out . They then were told about Ethan. So when the paramedics went in they tried to help Ethan and saw the mess . I think Dylan is a hero . She saved her and the other roommates lives and gave the needed lead on the murderer . I believe yes she was scared but no way in her young mind could she had known what had just taken place . And also remember everything went silent so she probably thought everyone was fine but she was still scared . Also note this is a freshman in college 2 months into her first semester away from home . Everything is kind of scary so she probably didn’t want to be “ that kid” that calls the cops .
No. Dylan & Bethany are both Jrs in college , & both in same sorority as Xana & Maddie were, Pi Beta Phi. That’s how they all met & decided to move out of sorority & into off campus housing. Kaylee & Maddie BF’s for years so she moved in w/them, even though she was an Alpha Phi.
Neither D or B called 911 as one of the 2 called other friends to come over first before calling 911. Friends then called 911 using 1 of the surfing roommates phone. In fact, what’s sad, both Hunter & Maize, Ethan’s triplet brother & sister were there before 911 & saw him before 911 was called. The friends called 911 at 11:58. This is in the initial report & the CPA. Sara Chapin, Ethan’s sister n law posted in Reddit about the roommates calling 911 so late & calling friends before 911.
I think that’s what it was or at least how I read it. How else would she have seen bushy eyebrows? It seems like the cops knew that BEFORE connecting it to him so I’m leaning toward it was more surgical/cloth COVID type mask
It won’t let me post a screen shot but the affidavit specifically says ‘DM stated she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black and a mask that covered the person’s mouth and nose walking towards her.’ On page 4
I was wondering if he was walking towards the glass door from the room on the other side of the wall from the hallway her door opens to? If any one know
i f that was the case she could easily see him walking towards and out the without him seeing her. If he walked down the hall straight towards her or down the stairs I think he would have had a higher chance of seeing her but as said may be in a sort of tunnel vision.
I have seen people report that there was a “Good Vibes” neon sign on the wall that would’ve been facing him as he walked passed DM’s room on the left. If this is the case, it would have lit up his face and also impaired his ability to see DM if her door was only open a crack.
Idk, but the girls strung lights all around the outside patio, & they were bright according to pictures, & illuminated into the kitchen. That light lit up into the stairwell too.
Did he walk down the stairs past her rook, down the hall towards her room, or across the room on the other side of the hall towards the sliding glass door? If it is the latter based on the house map it would be easy for her to open her door and peek out, see his face and him exit without him seeing her. However, if it were DOWN the hall that would he a straight on view and if it were down the stairs the room would be directly on his right and maybe he did just rush by with tunnel vision
If the mock-up I’ve seen is correct (not sure if it a guess or something officially released) the latent shoe print they found (Vans-style show mentioned in the affidavit) was facing out toward the main room as if it was from someone coming down the stairs. And the little 3D Zillow style walkthrough video showed the door opening on the right. So that would mean if he was coming down the stairs and everything was dark he may not have seen it cracked open and she saw him as he left and his face was maybe lit up slightly as he walked out onto the porch through the sliding doors. She may have only seen him from the side. That would be enough to see the mask, bushy eyebrows, but maybe not notice the blood.
I have seen reports that there was a “Good Vibes” neon sign that was on the wall facing him as he walked past DM’s room. If this is true then the sign would’ve lit up his face and also impaired his ability to see DM’s door open just a crack. This is how the witness was able to get a description of the perpetrator in a dark house. He might haven noticed the door open a little, but with the light from the sign on him, he would’ve just seen the darkened room and unable to make out that a person was looking at him.
Maybe? I’ve considered this, but what college-aged girl sleeps with her phone out of the room, as the affidavit said she was sleeping? There’s always the possibility this could be the case, I can’t deny that possibility. I just don’t find it probable.
I think we owe them the benefit of the doubt in this one! Definitely confusing, but it’s because we don’t have all the info yet. They shared just enough to get approval for a warrant. Fair to think that the FBI/LE knows something we don’t that is keeping them from being confused about this the way we are.
yes this. hard to know how different people react to trauma. we like to think they would do what we *think* we would do in that situation but we really don’t know without being in it ourselves, or having experienced all that they have.
what if it is though? as much as we want it not to be, closing our eyes to a scary uncomfortable situation and hoping it wasn’t real is not that unusual of a response. we are trying to make sense of a terrifying scenario with our logical thinking brain, but at 4am and possibly after a night of drinking, the logical thinking brain that resolves to call the police at the first sign of trouble is likely not activated. Going into fight, flight or freeze mode looks different for everyone.
I appreciate your comments on here, Meg, and I agree! Also, some comments suggest it may not have been weird to see people coming and going at that house, and that a ski mask isn’t that odd in Idaho. Maybe her immediate reaction was to shock, but then when he left and she didn’t hear any screams, etc, she rationalized it in her brain. Or simply passed out because it was 4am and she was drunk. Or maybe she wasn’t shocked at all and it wasn’t until she was interviewed by police that she processed the shock, or felt the need to say she was in shock. The weird part is the next morning when they called a friend thinking someone had passed out. But even then, a trauma response could’ve been that they couldn’t imagine or process such a violent scene.
I agree. Unfortunately, no one knows what they would do in a situation like this. I feel like I would call the police but who knows. Fear makes us all react differently. Some people are saying Dylan has PTSD from childhood trauma so that may have played a part in her reaction.
In college, had I been drinking a lot, listened again and didn’t hear anything (and not wanted to knock on roommates door if they were asleep or someone had a guest in there) ... I think mine would have been to go back to sleep. Never in a million years would I have thought what happened couldve occurred.
It was so late/early in the morning it seems likely they’d been partying. All sorts of substance combos would cause visualizations so imo that would make one second guess themself
I don’t think there was anything “normal” in that house. They were college kids partying like college kids do, keeping strange hours with old and new friends. I can imagine being alarmed but rationalizing a stranger in her home even at that late hour. I can also imagine being afraid enough to lock your door but talking yourself out of a “worst case scenario”.
There is also probably things not released. He very well could have threatened her, knocked her out, or said he was coming back. We don’t have all the facts and people keep reaching with this, when the focus should be on Bryan.
This is where I am stuck. Even if I was afraid to make any noise or if I was horrified of what I might find if I left the room- why wasn’t she texting anyone she was afraid? Or maybe she was and we don’t know?? I for one would be texting my bff or sister or mother that there was a MASKED INTRUDER! Why didn’t SOMEONE alert authorities if they ran into a masked man exiting the house?
I don’t want to come off as bashing the roommate(s), they are also victims. I just don’t understand.
She may have been frozen in terror. I agree it was a very long time but we did not experience what she did. I once was woken up by a girl screaming in our apartment building garage and the freeze that took over my body was unexplainable. I couldn't move and still remember it 25 years later. . That is nothing compared to what the roommate experienced. I’d like to hear a psychologists opinion on how/why this happens to some people. It’s all so sad!
I’m hoping there’s a reason they aren’t reporting further details about the roommate because there have to be more. She certainly wasn’t so ‘drunk or high’ that she forgot his bushy eyebrows. Sus.
The purpose of the document was to provide enough info to prove a warrant is needed. The doc doesn’t say what she does after seeing BK, likely because it wasn’t relevant to the document given it’s purpose. More will come out, this is just the very tip of the iceberg.
A similar thing happened to my Aunt. A short time after her husband passed away from cancer she awoke to a man sitting on the age of her bed. She woke up and saw him but at first thought it was her late husband visiting her. But at the same time felt scared and an uncomfortable presence. She closed her eyes tight and pretended to be asleep and eventually fell back to sleep. A short time later there was an article in her local paper about a man in a flannel shirt (what he was wearing in her bedroom) breaking in to peoples home and sitting on the edge of their beds while they slept. It wasn’t until then that she realized it was a stranger in her room that night! But just goes to show it is a normal response to freeze in fear and just hide/hope nothing happens or allow your mind to make sense of it (her telling herself it was her late husband visiting her!)
I keep thinking this too, why didnt this witness call someone. But then I remember: all this happened around 4-4:30am. Im not making a call and speaking out loud if someone is in my house like that. And there's not a single person I could text at 4am whose going to be awake to get that text. Or if they are its bc theyre already up in the shower getting ready for work. Granted Im not a college student
My heart goes out to her though, I'm sure she's feeling all of the emotions as well as getting blamed for not doing enough.
And, how was she to know if there wasn't a second or third intruder inside. I can't imagine her fear, but if I was ever in that position, I hope that I could have called or sent a text to someone. Even if she dialed 911 but didn't say anything, someone would reach out.
I really want to assume that she was either drunk or high or both and really wasn’t able to tell what was real and what was the weed/alcohol playing tricks on her. I truly think she saw something creepy, didn’t know what to make of it and then absolutely passed out in her bed. Woke up and realized that creepy thing she saw while drunk/high wasn’t a bad dream and then called.
I also think living in a college house like this where a lot of people are coming and going, staying up late and coming home drunk explains a lot. Seeing a stranger in your house when you have multiple roommates who all are living this lifestyle and go out to bars isn’t nearly as outlandish as if a stranger was to walk into your family home.
I had an intruder wake me up when I was 21 in my bed, we had a party that night and instead of screaming I stared at him so confused because I wasn’t sure if he was a guest from the party, what time it was etc. She of course didn’t realize murders had just occurred, and was probably extremely confused/startled. I totally agree with your comment.
I gotta say, I’ve been drunk and high at the same time and still pretty much had my wits about me. Also, adrenaline would’ve kicked in and sobered her up. However, I’m not blaming that girl at all. Have no idea how I’d react. We are all different.
I understand the questions, but remember, DM was asleep for approximately 2 hours and was awakened by what she thought was Kaylee playing upstairs with her dog. We are assuming DM had her phone in her room, she may not have. The affidavit is only giving enough information to get the arrest warrant, more details will come out.
She may have been texting the roommates and when she didn't get a response after seeing the masked man it further freaked her out. When a traumatic event happens your brain tries to protect you, it shuts down in a way, it's a trauma response.
The whole thing is so sad, the most obvious, four young adults lost their lives, but just as heartbreaking is, the two surviving roommates will be tortured for the rest of their lives. I hope DM is getting the help she needs. Her testimony will be key in holding BK accountable.
Exactly, your brain tries to protect you by coming up with the most realistic situation possible. No one’s going to automatically think, oh, murderer bc that’s not normal.
It was a known party house where people came and went. She might of thought he was s friend of one of her roommates and was leaving. Wearing a mask is no big deal since Covid.
Not judging because we don’t have all the facts but it is so hard to understand. Whatever concern she had caused her to go to the door 3 times ~ including all the things she had heard up to that point. Heartbreaking to think they could have had some help. It’s honestly one of the pieces of information I wish I did not know.
I’m with you on this one. That isn’t adding up to me. I know we aren’t getting the full story, but if a man I don’t know is walking out of my house at 4am (even if it’s a “party house”) - I’m going to check on my roommates / the house / are the doors locked? I don’t know. ESPECIALLY after stating she heard low chatter in the house.
What about Maddie’s last post on Tik Tok 2 weeks before the video? Dylan in a Halloween costume with the audio of you’re a F ing liar, manipulative? And didn’t Xana’s dad come 2 weeks before the murders to change her bedroom locks? Is that not bizarre?
She remembers too much for being drunk don’t you think? I remember this weird man and his build and his black clothes and his mask and his bushy eyebrows at 4am. I also remember someone crying and someone else talking about helping them. But I was too drunk to go out and check on anyone for another 9+ hours. I dunno.
She may have a photographic memory. She might have saw him and not registered what is going on but when reflecting on the event can still picture the man. This is how my memory works.
I agree that she remembers too much for being intoxicated. If she was too intoxicated, I'm not sure how the police could use her statement as a reliable witness.
I read almost all of the affidavit and I'm also struck by the fact that the murderer (who I do believe IS the suspect Kohlberger!) walked past DM. I wonder if he did NOT see her. But if DM heard so much and saw him, why DID she wait to call? We have to hear the rest of this story. Was she that terrified? Or have the police not been honest in the reports hoping to throw off the killer? I read the affidavit quickly, but thought I read that the police were called earlier than we have been told and came to the scene earlier. I need to read it again. It is very impressive that they - authorities -were able to keep so much under wraps till they had plenty to hang him with. If they had told the public more sooner, as the public begged, they would not have this mountain of evidence
Maybe she thought it was only a burglar- and he was leaving- it’s all so crazy. They aren’t giving all the evidence either- I believe this is just enough to get the arrest warrant.
I don't think he saw her. Her room was right off the kitchen, wouldn't even look like a bedroom is there. She might have just had the door cracked and it was dark and he was likely on an adrenaline high from that and just tunnel visioned to the glass door.
I just don’t understand the delay in calling the police. She heard something and she SAW something - an intruder!! For God’s sake, you know your cell phone is attached to your hip! Call the freaking police!
It’s confusing, but I’m giving the benefit of the doubt there’s more to the story. We’re just missing the puzzle pieces that help it make sense. I think they intentionally left out what happened after she saw BK.
This! After being woken up 2-3 times to weird instances and then seeing a masked someone leave. I would definitely be sending a group message. Maybe she did and we just don’t know? So so strange.
For me, it's all of it pulled together. The roommate saw an intruder, heard crying, and calls 7 hours later only after phoning friends. Then the initial call reports a possibly unconscious individual, but in the meantime blood is literally leaking out of the wall. I have all the sympathy for them, what a terrible experience. It just is a series of odd events.
So the story about calling about an unconscious person...I read that the roommates found their deceased roommates after they woke up that morning, ran out of the house in shock/fear and called 911 but people walking by ended up having to help talk to 911 on the phone because the girls were in such shock and inconsolable state...and that’s why the caller said unconscious.
There is an interview with one of the girls parents where the father says 2 of the girls weren’t killed the same way. Is it possible that one appeared to just be unconscious ?
No. I think he meant that one sustained worse/more injuries than the other. I believe the unconscious person was the roommate in shock trying to call police n
The unconscious person was the surviving roommate who passed out on shock. She was seen outside on the ground and was called in as a person unconscious, not anyone who had been murdered
Been following the case since the very beginning and this is what’s been said multiple times by many sources. Surviving roommate, DM, ran out of the house in panic and fainted. Someone who was by used her phone to call 911 and reported her unconscious. Call wasn’t actually made about the murders. Police encountered upon arrival. It’s all so wild and has consumed me for the last month and a half. Those poor kids and their families are forever broken.
Because it wasn’t the roommate that spoke to them. The roommate called, passed out in the front of the house and the friend (not living in the house) finished the call with 911. Don’t think that person knew they were murdered.
Where did this come from? No way did everyone on that street keep quiet about this. There would have been an absolute spectacle out front that people would have seen at that time of day and someone would have spoken about it publicly.
It was on a news report that I saw. And I don’t agree that it would be an absolute spectacle. It’s a college town where most kids are sleeping in and it is also winter. Not a ton of people outside. No one knew about the murders yet.
One of the victim’s fathers did an interview that supports the two surviving roommates had difficulty completing the 911 call. According to him, one roommate passed out and the other was hyperventilating and the dispatcher could not understand her. He did not confirm that someone else spoke to the dispatcher, but it can be assumed that someone mentioned the roommate that passed out while trying to describe everything and that is why the police/ambulance was dispatched as for an unconscious person.
I read that DM has a history of PTSD and childhood trauma that gives her nightmares still and she at first throught she was in a nightmare and was scared and locked herself in her bedroom. Maybe until it was light out to go check out of fear and she might have crashed at some point from the shock fatigue. None of us know how we would actually react and what we would do in her shoes. She must have been bone chilling horrified.
I also have a hunch she was in the dark or didn’t open the door enough for him to see her but she could see him. Combined with him maybe having tunnel vision to get out.
My theory is he could have been targeting Xana or Ethan but maybe didn’t know what floor they were on and went up to the third floor first and the girls were awake and so he had to kill them. And then went downstairs to xanas room and then left out the sliding door on the same floor from there- walking past DM on the way. I keep thinking about the order and what the connection could be but I keep thinking of what Kaylee’s dad was saying that “he didn’t have to go upstairs”. I go back and forth on the order.
Bottom line. The whole timeline and thought of what these kids went through sends chills up my spine every time I think about it.
Could it be that DM was the unconscious one? That the other surviving roommate called about her because she passed out after what she heard/saw? Theory, but maybe after he left she did go up to see and found one of them and then passed out hence why the call didn’t happen till 6 hours later
I did see a 911 operator on tik tok day that sometimes they use the term unconscious when dispatching because they aren’t sure what the scene is. So even if the roommate didn’t say unconscious the dispatcher might have. I guess we won’t know until they release the call
I wonder if she thought one of her roommates met a guy at the bar and she just figured that was him leaving 🤷🏻♀️ Maybe she wasn’t frozen or whatever she said but just creeped out bc he looked creepy.
College houses are weird. People in and out, many you don't know but others do. She might have thought it was someone leaving after seeing a roommate. Plus she was likely intoxicated and half asleep. She was probably freaked out but didn't wanna overreact by calling the cops.
The cell phone tracking is so wild, they can tell that he visited the house at least 12 times prior to the murder?? But he only turned his location off/phone off/airplane mode the night of the murder, how would he not think to do it previously?
I have seen on many other true crime shows/read books they talk about murderers commonly drive by or insert themselves in the investigation which is equally as creepy and awful.
It was really strange...in one of the Facebook groups about this case there is/was a member named Papa Roger. People believe it was actually Brian. The photo even looks like it could be Brian using one of those AI apps. He started many strange conversations. One that I saw was an argument with someone about possible dna that could have been left behind. The person he was arguing with suggested the murderer could have left the knife sheath behind with dna. Papa Roger became irritated by this comment and questioned how anyone could make the assumption a sheath was used. Knowing now that this is the reality it is all very eerie.
I just read about the FB group and Papa Roger. The article I read also said Papa was asking similar (or same) Q’s as the Reddit questionnaire which got people thinking .... 🧐
I was reading about the Reddit questions, but I can’t make much of that only because of my own personal experience with online college classes, especially in psychology and helping my husband through his own criminology degree.
Professors would have me post questionnaires or send them out to emails and then use the results for an assignment or class discussion. So I can see this being the case with his phd work in criminology. But it’s not lost on me how creepy it is that he studied this and then went on to commit murders!!!
That’s really interesting about the Papa Roger info, i will have to hop onto Facebook and check out discussions on there. So strange!! I wouldn’t be shocked by this behavior though.
I think the real question now would be is someone still commenting from that account 👀 if so he could have handed it off but I doubt it. This guy didn’t seem like the type that would have ‘followers’ per say. The comment about the knife sheath is interesting though..... unless that was a bit of leaked information I have to wonder where/how that got out or if it was just a good bit of guessing.
The account has not been active since he was detained. Also it has now been removed or suspended (not sure of the right terminology here) and people are speculating the police did it because it’s an account connected to him and I guess that’s a common thing to deactivate criminals accounts when they are being investigated. 🤷🏻♀️
Fascinating. It’s either legitimately connected to him or was widely reported as him and they decided to take it down out of caution…… maybe we’ll find out as the once progresses
**criminology (sorry my bad. I understand the difference, as my husband got his degree in one and not the other) and I’m a huge Criminal Minds fan. Does this apply- not even a little, but my apology for the error.
Sorry if it came off rude. Wasn’t meant that way. I was just clarifying because it would make more sense why he was sloppy with him a evidence and phones and driving by. Sorry if it came off rude.
It’s all good, I’m sorry too. I think I had too many crazies contact me on Facebook Market today trying to sell a stroller, and I forgot that this is a place to share ideas and thoughts minus the nonsense, so my apologies.
But you’re right, I was just saying to someone that it is wild to think that he could imagine getting away with it based on his degree in “cloud forensics”. But as another commenter said- hubris.
No worries, I think he was super arrogant and maybe a little over cocky. It does seem like he should have known better still to be less sloppy. However things get messy in 4 murders in 20 minutes. I’m curious to find out more details of what the police know. Was he really targeting all four or were some just collateral damage. Did he see the other roommate and leave her alive on purpose or did he not even see her?
I’m not 100% certain but I’m sure I heard/read/kids told me via TikTok content (?) that Kohberger previously had some sort of brief relationship with one of the victims so, maybe he didn’t need to or think to turn the phone off on the previous occasions b/c he was legitimately visiting the house (?)
You’re probably right ... I had a conversation with my kids who happen to use tik tok. This is a forum to discuss the case, not to know all the answers. Please be kind.
Sadly, not everyone is as thorough as Jessica in their coverage and I don’t consider tiktokers valid non-mainstream media sources. As you can see with the example that she heard misinformation that one of the murdered girls dated BK. Many people playing arm chair detective on sm just jump to conclusions based on their feelings and not facts. That’s dangerous when we are talking about 4 kids being murdered and it shows the dumbing down of society.
If I recall correctly, it was with the help of social media “arm chair detectives” and “speculators” that they solved the Gabby Petito murder. It’s how they found the video footage of their white van parked and knew the location to look and find her body. So, agree to disagree that speculation is always harmful. Also, pretty sure Jessica’s audience here enjoys a good speculation.
No it was two youtube travelers that filmed their travels that saw the van on their footage. They weren’t arm chair detectives, just travel youtubers like gabby was.
Agreed! Plenty of great information on TikTok about these murders. Some media sources are just now starting to talk about this since an affidavit is available. A lot of what’s on there has already been shared til now from these “non-mainstream” sources.
Yeah I thought the same thing. Or perhaps something outlandish like she thought he was a "customer"? I know it's out there and I don't want to speculate something negative but it doesn't make sense why they wouldn't release the info about the delay in the call the police. Makes me think it could be information that is negative against the victims
I definitely think there would be some truth to this. It doesn’t sound like they had been home that long and if DM heard one of the girls say ‘I think someone’s here’ or something to that effect DM could have later thought it was a friend or hookup leaving the house. She may have just noticed what he looked like but if she was sleepy or drunk she could have easily passed back out after seeing him. She might have even talked herself out of calling the cops because she didn’t want to make something out of nothing. Only to panic, realize her mistake, and pass out when she saw what happened.
The affidavit stated that criminals will often forget to turn off or leave cell phones when they’re casing a location because when they’re casing they aren’t actually committing a crime
I think we owe them the benefit of the doubt in this one! Definitely confusing, but it’s because we don’t have all the info yet. They shared just enough to get approval for a warrant. Fair to think that the FBI/LE knows something we don’t that is keeping them from being confused about this the way we are.
I want to know how he targeted them. It seems connected to Sig Chi especially if you look at the call he made to that podcast..BUT also was it all 4 or just 1 of them he targeted..we know he stalked them and that house on 12 different occasions..
He was a vegan and K and M worked at a Greek restaurant that pulls up first on google when you search for vegan dining options. I think he was stalking one of them. Remember at the time of the murders people said K had a stalker?
I think so too! Early on they said one of the girls had a stalker and the police discounted it probably as not to tip off the killer. I think the kids knew him. What if he was there for one of them and didn’t expect them to be in the room together- and then ran into X as he was exiting and then had to kill her and her bf.Maybe when the roommate saw him she just thought the creeper is here bc maybe he came around some and they knew he was obsessed with one of the girls but thought he was harmless. I saw a news interview that said he was likely an incel (involuntary celibate) bc he could not establish long term relationships with women that resulted in intimacy. Wonder what his on-line behaviors will show? Porn? And creepy inappropriate messages? Dating app? This is all so crazy and terrifying.
Wow I hadn’t heard that he was stalking her prior. Seems weird then that the roommate didn’t do anything when she saw him. Did she not realize it was the stalker cause of his mask? Maybe.
They think he called into a local podcast. The audio was so strange. He said he had 10 different frat brothers (from Ethan’s frat) ask him randomly at different times how to get away with the perfect murder. The host was super sketched out by him.
If you are assuming she was afraid because he’d just murdered her roommates then yes it doesn’t make sense. However this was a bit of a party house, many people lived there. It probably wasn’t that unusual to have people come and go, to hear weird things. She was probably drunk, sees a dude walk by that creeped her out, went into her room locked her door and passed out. I just can’t get myself to believe she was paralyzed with fear in her room for hours because she thought the guy she saw had just murdered her roommates. That makes no logical sense to me.
You’re right! I’m sure she just thought it was a random dude and then made the connection after realizing what happened to her roommates the next morning.
I read an article earlier that said she suffered from PTSD (something in her past I assume) and had nightmares and thought she might be having a nightmare? Not sure if that’s factual, I can’t remember the source of the article.
I think you’re right. People are looking at her experience through a lens of knowing the outcome. She didn’t know the outcome when she saw him. She knew what usually happens in the house, she knew what she heard. That’s it.
I agree it’s all very odd, just trying to rationalize it. I thinks it’s even more odd that he walked past a live eye witness. Maybe his adrenaline was going and he didn’t even see her ?!
I think it’s very likely that at least the cops didn’t think he noticed her. It seems like that would be a reason to hold back that there were any witnesses until the arrest was made. If he knew someone saw him, even with a partial description they could have feared the murderer would try to find them.
All of it is mind blowing, he just walked right by her like she wasn't even there? He makes me sick and he will get what's coming to him. I'm surprised after she saw him and he left that she didn't check if everyone else was okay, I'm sure she was in shock but I wonder if we will ever know why she didn't call for so many hours later. All of it just insane and he's twisted and has the coldest eyes.
My only thoughts on the delay in calling was that DM was in shock and inebriated. What if what was seen was thought to be a figment of their own imagination, etc? Seems like a reach, but you just never know.
I’m baffled by the roommate. Prior to reading the affidavit, I didn’t think much of the roommate other than probably blacked out drunk, passed out…Now I’m like “why didn’t you at least text your roommates after hearing all of the commotion, seeing a masked intruder, the fear?” There’s got to be so much we still don’t know.
She might’ve done just that, who knows! They never expanded on what she did after seeing him as it probably wasn’t relevant to requesting the approval for a warrant
I didn’t previously realize that the mask was a Covid-style mask. When they mentioned mask I went straight to ski mask out of sheer instinct (creepy murder = creepy ski mask obviously)
The Covid mask makes a big difference to me when discussing being able to identify someone to me.
I agree with the screaming. In the report it seems like there was 2 victims near each other. Maybe I read it wrong but, wouldn’t someone hear something in the house a little more that crying
Exactly ... I don’t get it ... I would 1000 percent be txt my friends regardless of my trauma... I would be txt them bc of ... some thing is not right...
The roommates had all been out partying and drinking--I think this has to be factored into the remaining roommates’ actions and reactions. E.g., “Maybe I just imagined seeing someone?”
Or, she goes in, locks the door, lies down to listen, and falls asleep. If drunk, this might explain the long time lapse.
this very type of thought crossed my mind as well. if she was still a bit drunk and hadn’t slept much yet, then woke up to the sound of distant crying, saw something that scared her so froze and withdrew back to her room it’s not inconceivable that she fell asleep
I read an article earlier that said she suffered from PTSD (something in her past I assume) and had nightmares and thought she might be having a nightmare? Not sure if that’s factual, I can’t remember the source of the article.
My stomach aches with each new detail in this case. I cannot wait to hear his ‘story’ to justify all of his whereabouts that are accounted for. I’m so interested to hear the motive which won’t be released until the trial I’m guessing.As for the roommate not reporting sooner, I have many theories. Can’t wait to hear how not random these victims were. So sad and disturbing.
Is there 4,000 comments?
I found it:) it’s in the messages! There is about 4,000 comments. You have to go to the message icon on the app. It was confusing to me too at first ☺️
I found it!! Finally. Thank you.
Yeah I’m a little confused too. I can’t find the old thread.
Yes she made a new list of all the info/theories. I don’t think the new thread is the one with the 4,000 comments.
I found it too...and moving on to new thread. 😊
I completely agree! She may have continued being in a trauma response when morning came and she came to the realization what occurred at the home. Bless those surviving roommates, family, and friends!
I think Harry and his BS distracted Jess tonight! Lol
She was here earlier
Absolutely insane - all of it. And the fact he applied to be an intern with the cops a month or two before the murders?!?!?
But I’m most struck by the fact he walked directly toward the surviving roommate, only to walk past her. Did he notice she was there?? Why would he leave her unharmed, especially as a witness who could identify him. That said, the verbiage used doesn’t exactly state he made eye contact with her or was aware of her. Maybe she only opened the door slightly and was peeking out?
Hmmm. There is a lot of concrete evidence!
my thoughts as well, thinking he possibly did not really see her maybe it was extra dark where she was standing? maybe he was focused on heading toward the sliding glass door
My thought as well. Who knows what goes through a person's mind after murdering another? Are they focused on just getting out the door, on speed of leaving, thinking about 'what do I need to to next?' And so on.
If the roommate opened the door 6 inches or so & if there were no lights on, it's possible that he walked right by without noticing her.
Truly horrifying.
Bryan talked about this on a Facebook group - his alias was Papa Rodgers. The reason was sheer exhaustion.
We do not know if that was him for sure but the likelihood is high!
I haven’t heard of this post before. Is there a link?
I'm not sure but I think if you look mama.mysterypodcast up on Twitter she has screenshots of some of the FB posts.
Very true. Allegedly Bryan. But the fact that he was posting details no one knew, especially the knife shield makes it very likely.
'Trust but verify' is always a good rule of thumb.
There is so much sadness in and around this entire story. It breaks my heart.
Has that been verified?
I don't think so. But supposedly the FBI shut the account down.
Fascinating
He could have thought she heard and called the police. So he was out of time.
If the audio released with the speculation of what was said is true and they did know him I'm predicting... he went there with the sole intention of killing Kaylee but she was in a room with another girl so he killed them both and then was spotted by Xana and her boyfriend so he killed them both so there were no witnesses. As far as the survivor that spotted him, either he didn't see her or maybe she didn't know him or at that point he was like crap I killed three people I wasn't planning to and got the hell out of there. If he did see her I'm definitely puzzled why he just walked right past her.
I think his adrenaline must have been through the roof. Four murders in less than 10 minutes - I bet he never even saw her and was tunnel visioned trying to get out.
My thoughts, too. Could have been dark where she was but the fact that she was able to make out his eyebrows sticking out of a (presumably) ski mask in a dark hallway means she was close enough. I also wonder at her state of mind that she went back to bed and didn't call 9-1-1, she must've been in a state of shock as she noted.
I’m actually extremely concerned by the report of the roommate. She thinks she hears someone crying, sees a weird man inside the house at 4am, and yet the police aren’t called until after noon the next day? Weird.
This is very sus no matter how you look
I need to amend my comment. All these comments have made me think and I honestly am just heartbroken for these remaining roommates-the trauma they’ve endured
Maybe trauma, but I also have have a 15 year old and a 17 year old so I hang out with teens all the time and as a whole their friends are wildly unobservant. (It worries me.) I think it's because of tech and the pandemic. If they were up late, drinking, maybe doing drugs, I can totally see my kids' friends making this same choice.
I agree. The younger generation can detach...in the sense of I see videos of someone recording a horrific circumstance rather calling the police or helping. I always wonder how can you sit there and watch this happening as if it’s not happening? Maybe tech has made things unreal seem so real that some cannot even determine what’s real anymore? It’s all so incredibly sad regardless
I’ve been saying this to everyone who is sus’d out by D. People need to stop villainizing het to this degree, she is a kid who lived in a party house with people coming and going. We don’t know what she might have been on. I read she thought she might have been hallucinating and has a history of ptsd. Personally I was prescribed ambien after an SA in college, I lived in housing that was like Grand Central station and I would hallucinate / sleepwalk due to the ambien. We just don’t know her individual circumstances. I think she peeked out and saw a guy and prolly thought K or M brought him home from the bar and he was leaving; he creeped her out, wearing a mask (people do still mask regardless of one’s personal stance, esp w cases going up and sick season/ holidays were approaching) in black, it was dark and she probably didn’t see blood, and locked the door cause she had a weird feeling and went to bed. No kid is going to jump to the conclusion their friends were all just slaughtered. She slept 8 hours, yeah it was noon but hello college kids sleep in on sundays if they are up til 4. Nothing abt her actions is that unusual to me as someone who can relate to their living situation.
Exactly! It is strange and sus! It makes me wonder about him questioning if he was the only person being arrested.
Maybe she was drunk/high or had illicit drugs in her room? Maybe she was waiting to come down from a high or didn’t want cops coming and finding drugs in her room and delayed calling due to that? Maybe she thought she’d get in trouble if she called the police? Just a theory. No one knows yet. Hopefully we get more details.
But just letting your friends die??? No way. Get the drug charge
Pretty sure it’s a well known fact inebriated individuals have impaired judgement. Due to my work I’ve frequently been around people who use drugs. They do not make the best choices. I’ve seen a lot of bad choices made to hide the drugs they’ve had in their possession. You can’t think “why did this person not make a clear judgement choice?!?!” when they are not physically capable of doing so in that state.
I’ve been saying this. It has made me think about the chapter in Malcolm Gladwell’s “talking w strangers” where he uses the Brock T case to explain alcohol leading to cognitive myopia esp in college kids and how they may make decisions based on the moment rather than paying attention to cues that might indicate a broader situation. It so easily imo explains how D may have written off all the random stuff she heard and seeing B and gone to bed.
How was she to know they had been stabbed ? That's not something a typical person ever experiences, let alone the first thing her mind would go to when seeing a stranger in a house full of strangers all the time.
I agree. Something doesn't add up here. What happened during those 8 hours? And why didn't he kill her?
Likely she was sleeping.
But seeing a strange person w/a ski mask on is not a normal sight. Especially one covered in blood. And they had a ton of lights hanging around the patio that illuminated the patio Im sure lit up inside the kitchen, how could she not see blood? He had just stabbed 4 ppl? Several times. According to PD reports, it was the bloodiest crime scene experienced cops had ever seen?
It’s hard to imagine but since we weren’t there and we only know what we know … speculating about a young woman whose 4 roommates were murdered seems heartless in my opinion. Maybe she’d done mushrooms and thought she was hallucinating…. If he wore gloves to take out the trash, maybe he had something on top of his clothes he removed. I’d hate to think this broken hearted girl coming across speculation about her. We can be patient for more info I think and speculate all we want about the murderer.
I think they were all inebriated - she ordered the door dash at 4am. I bet there are other details that weren’t in the affidavit. These kids are so young and I’m sure have led blessed lives up until this point. She may not have realized the seriousness? Definitely think there is more to it
Xana ordered the door dash food, not DM. I agree, think there’s more too, the CPA doesn’t fill in all the blanks. Nor is it required to.
My question EXACTLY! No one called till 8 hours later!? Makes no sense!
Trauma is weird and freeze is definitely a “normal” response-flight or fight being the more prolific ones. Her brain most likely tried to rationalize the unthinkable and reframe. Her subconscious was intuiting the DANGER signal: the very tangible scent of blood, the sounds she noted, her eyes registering inane details like eyebrows and a mask. When the adrenaline evaporated, she could have fell into a catatonic-like sleep or she could have been rooted in fear that he was going to be back for her. We simply don’t know what she did in that time, but her actions very obviously could have saved her life.
It’s easy to sit in our safe-space brain and think of the things we would do in this situation, because we are not operating from a life-or-death mindset. Unless we are faced with that horrifying reality, we simply do not know what our trauma response would be.
Spot on.
Absolutely
I don't agree with this at all.
Terrifying. A few months ago I was approached 2x in one night while walking my dog in a neighborhood I've been in for all of my 51 years. I won't get into it the details but it was terrifying. I had 2 cameras outside my house at the time, I looked back at the footage from the previous week and saw that I had been being stalked by not one, but 2 cars as - as soon as my neighbors left for the day it would begin. Also found a video of a man on foot iny driveway, looking down the street from where he walked from like he was seeing if I could see something down there and walking around the front of my house trying to see in my front door - in broad daylight. There's more but it was so frightening that this had been going on for at least the previous week and I had been utterly blind to it and ignored things I shouldn't have because I was comfortable in my nearly lifelong suburban neighborhood home. I'm not anymore, I won't walk my dog anymore, I've installed many, many more cameras and a full alarm system with panic button. I've spent literally 1000s on security and weapons and I'm still nervous 24/7. Oh, and the useless police wouldn't even watch the videos I had, acted like I was bothering them - even when the neighbor came over when she saw them there and told them a man in white car had been watching them load up their kids to leave at her sisters around the corner. Even with a neighbor verifying what I was said and had on film they told me I should "maybe look into seeing a psychologist". It's been horrifying, I don't sleep anymore. I totally understand why you would sell your house and move. If someone were ever in my home I think I would simply die of shock and I would definitely move immediately.
Glad you are ok. I've had several stalkers in my college days. Scary crap. Like he would send roses and poems to the bar I was going to be out at that night before I even got there. Like how did he know? He thought we were in a relationship. I kindly said I've never spoken to you in my life. You are scaring the shit out of me. Please stop. Then the owner of the club was my friend and wanted to throw him out.(being protective) i said please don't. I don't want him mad at me. He did throw him out. I was terrified.
Omg, you poor thing. How terrifying! That he made a key as well. I'm so glad to have a very loud and strong Great Dane more than ever.
Clearly you haven’t experienced trauma
Great comment. AND he did come back! At 9am. He may not have re entered or approached the house, but he definitely went back. Imagine that poor darling, Dylan. So afraid, and knowing now, that he returned!
I agree 100% with this.
Didn't she lock her door after she saw him? Don't know if she had been drinking but IF she was v tired maybe that + the locked door gave her a sense of security & she dropped off to sleep.
Also, I thought that a lot of ppl were always in and out of the house all the time. Perhaps seeing someone that she didn't recognize wasn't that big of a deal.
And if his mask was a COVID type, that isn't unusual either.
That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. The house sounds like it was very busy in general. And yes, a covid type mask doesn’t concern ppl these days.
It was a ski mask, per CPA.
I think it does make sense. I speculate they were all intoxicated coming home drunk at 2 am, up till 3-4 am, it’s a party house, 6 people were staying there, and then they all passed out and didn’t wake up until 7 hours later. And yeah I think he probably didn’t see her but she saw him.
She could have also thought it was just some guy her roommates had brought home so didn’t call the police thinking she didn’t want to cause trouble. Young kids don’t think like adults, especially if they’ve been drinking or if the roommates have a pattern of drinking/drugs. I don’t think it’s sus, I think it’s scary as hell either way!
I read on another IG account who has been covering the story since it broke, that this particular roommate suffers from PTSD & nightmares (from childhood trauma). It's possible she thought she was having a nightmare (especially if alcohol/drugs were also a factor). I feel awful for the remaining two roommates who will likely be haunted by the images of their slain friends for the rest of their life.
Wow - thanks for sharing your perspective.
As if the poor girl hasn't had enough in her young life already!
Poor girl!
I follow 2 IG accts for this case, which IG acct are you following ?
I've been following Cupcakemag on IG
Ok. Same. Also
AshleyMerry is really good if your interested. 😊
This is also our generation of children that grew up with lockdown drills and taught to hide, freeze and make no noise for fear of attracting the intruder.
That is such an important point!!
I didn't even consider this. Such a great point and a reminder of how crappy it is to be a kid growing up in America today. When I was in elementary school all we worried about/practiced was what to do in case of a tornado or fire.
Great point!
I am so sorry that your generation had to live through that.
I got into a heated discussion about this too. Because I agree with you. Like- I think I would have had the wherewithal to go back into my room and call 911 but. Bars, staying out until 2:00am, possibly drugs? She might have thought she was dreaming or whatever. Then slept it off. I don’t know.
It's virtually impossible for any one of us to know how we would act/react when faced w that situation.
I agree that based on the information that we have - that it is weird. But I think it is also important to remember that the information in the probable cause affidavit is the bare bones, they put in just enough information to prove to a judge that an arrest warrant is necessary. There will be a lot more information that has been kept from the PCA. All we know thus far is that she saw him and locked her door. We don’t know what her actions were after that point. Perhaps she did try to call the police, perhaps she didn’t have her phone charged, perhaps she was traumatised (she apparently has PTSD) ... perhaps she decided to hide and fell asleep, so many things we actually do not know. We know that 4 students were brutally murdered, at that point in time - she wouldn’t know that. What we do know is that BK is accused of taking these young lives and that the room mates survived. I have no doubt that if he saw her - he would have killed her too. At this point I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt, she is not the villain in this ‘story’. Her life is forever changed by the events that night.
I completely agree with you and others about trauma response and not making the two survivors the villains. They aren't.
Right on the affidavit, tho' I would caution - we don't KNOW that he did it.
There is the presumption of innocence until found guilty.
I know there is already persuasive evidence but I would imagine we all have been wrong at one time or another about a person's guilt. At least I have.
I absolutely agree with you! Which is why I worded my comment to state that he is ‘accused’ of these murders.
My apologies - I did not read your original comment closely enough.
I agree with your original post.
When I was in high school, I often slept in my living room on the couch because I liked to fall asleep watching TV. I awoke to someone touching my chest gently and they jumped back behind my head and crouched in the corner. I closed my eyes, remained quiet, and pretended to be asleep. They then walked out of my living room toward my front door as I watched them in the shadows. They walked through the front door and said, “ya, she’s asleep” and then slammed the door shut. I ran to my room, locked the door, and didn’t come out until the morning which is then when I went upstairs to tell my parents what had happened. They were freaked out and thought at first that I was crazy for not coming up to their room to tell them what had happened. But, to me, getting to my bedroom and locking the door was the safest option because the stairs to their room were less than a foot away from my front door where the intruder exited. When you are in fear, you are somewhat in shock and paralyzed. I have the most sympathy for this girl and completely understand her shutting off. You never know what you would do until you’re in a scary situation and luckily for most, they will never have to experience what she did.
Wow. What a traumatic event to have experienced.
A similar thing happened to my Aunt. A short time after her husband passed away from cancer she awoke to a man sitting on the age of her bed. She woke up and saw him but at first thought it was her late husband visiting her. But at the same time felt scared and an uncomfortable presence. She closed her eyes tight and pretended to be asleep and eventually fell back to sleep. A short time later there was an article in her local paper about a man in a flannel shirt (what he was wearing in her bedroom) breaking in to peoples home and sitting on the edge of their beds while they slept. It wasn’t until then that she realized it was a stranger in her room that night! But just goes to show it is a normal response to freeze in fear and just hide/hope nothing happens or allow your mind to make sense of it (her telling herself it was her late husband visiting her!)
How scary! Glad he didn't do anything to her. What a weird world we live in.
I heard last night that Dylan locked herself in the same room as the other surviving roommate. When they did wake up they saw Ethan . The both ran out of the house screaming and hysterical. One of them tried to call 911 but was too hysterical . The other one fainted . When 911 showed up they thought they were there for the roommate who passed out . They then were told about Ethan. So when the paramedics went in they tried to help Ethan and saw the mess . I think Dylan is a hero . She saved her and the other roommates lives and gave the needed lead on the murderer . I believe yes she was scared but no way in her young mind could she had known what had just taken place . And also remember everything went silent so she probably thought everyone was fine but she was still scared . Also note this is a freshman in college 2 months into her first semester away from home . Everything is kind of scary so she probably didn’t want to be “ that kid” that calls the cops .
No. Dylan & Bethany are both Jrs in college , & both in same sorority as Xana & Maddie were, Pi Beta Phi. That’s how they all met & decided to move out of sorority & into off campus housing. Kaylee & Maddie BF’s for years so she moved in w/them, even though she was an Alpha Phi.
Neither D or B called 911 as one of the 2 called other friends to come over first before calling 911. Friends then called 911 using 1 of the surfing roommates phone. In fact, what’s sad, both Hunter & Maize, Ethan’s triplet brother & sister were there before 911 & saw him before 911 was called. The friends called 911 at 11:58. This is in the initial report & the CPA. Sara Chapin, Ethan’s sister n law posted in Reddit about the roommates calling 911 so late & calling friends before 911.
When I read 'mask' I immediately thought of a COVID mask that only covered the mouth & nose.
I think that’s what it was or at least how I read it. How else would she have seen bushy eyebrows? It seems like the cops knew that BEFORE connecting it to him so I’m leaning toward it was more surgical/cloth COVID type mask
Exactly my thought.
No. The affidavit indicates a ski mask
You can't see eyebrows in a ski mask. Just teeth and eyes
The affidavit indicates ski mask.
It won’t let me post a screen shot but the affidavit specifically says ‘DM stated she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black and a mask that covered the person’s mouth and nose walking towards her.’ On page 4
Meg it was a 😷 mask we have all come to think as common place since Covid. A covering over his nose and mouth.
Maybe there was so much chaos and noise - he knew he had to get out of there.
Yes super weird, but wasn't she out drinking all night? Maybe she was stoned/ drunk
She may just thought that it was someone that one of the roommates brought home that night.
Wearing a ski mask & covered in blood?
No one mentioned seeing blood and he wasn't wearing a ski mask. One can't see anyone's eyebrows in a ski mask.
If you have seen the 360 views of the house it is possible he walked right past her without him seeing her. They layout is so strange.
I was wondering if he was walking towards the glass door from the room on the other side of the wall from the hallway her door opens to? If any one know
i f that was the case she could easily see him walking towards and out the without him seeing her. If he walked down the hall straight towards her or down the stairs I think he would have had a higher chance of seeing her but as said may be in a sort of tunnel vision.
I have seen people report that there was a “Good Vibes” neon sign on the wall that would’ve been facing him as he walked passed DM’s room on the left. If this is the case, it would have lit up his face and also impaired his ability to see DM if her door was only open a crack.
Idk, but the girls strung lights all around the outside patio, & they were bright according to pictures, & illuminated into the kitchen. That light lit up into the stairwell too.
Did he walk down the stairs past her rook, down the hall towards her room, or across the room on the other side of the hall towards the sliding glass door? If it is the latter based on the house map it would be easy for her to open her door and peek out, see his face and him exit without him seeing her. However, if it were DOWN the hall that would he a straight on view and if it were down the stairs the room would be directly on his right and maybe he did just rush by with tunnel vision
I'm sure those details will come out and when they do I bet we will be shocked either way.
If the mock-up I’ve seen is correct (not sure if it a guess or something officially released) the latent shoe print they found (Vans-style show mentioned in the affidavit) was facing out toward the main room as if it was from someone coming down the stairs. And the little 3D Zillow style walkthrough video showed the door opening on the right. So that would mean if he was coming down the stairs and everything was dark he may not have seen it cracked open and she saw him as he left and his face was maybe lit up slightly as he walked out onto the porch through the sliding doors. She may have only seen him from the side. That would be enough to see the mask, bushy eyebrows, but maybe not notice the blood.
If it’s a guess*
I have seen reports that there was a “Good Vibes” neon sign that was on the wall facing him as he walked past DM’s room. If this is true then the sign would’ve lit up his face and also impaired his ability to see DM’s door open just a crack. This is how the witness was able to get a description of the perpetrator in a dark house. He might haven noticed the door open a little, but with the light from the sign on him, he would’ve just seen the darkened room and unable to make out that a person was looking at him.
Such a sad story. May they RIP. May he get what's coming.
I hope no copycats come from this! It’s truly scary he was able to do this and no one saw the signs
Absolutely chilling...unbelievable!! 🤯😱
It's just a little weird the cops weren't called earlier, since the roommate saw an intruder.
I’m exactly here too. If there was someone in my house I’m calling IMMEDIATELY!
Or texting someone to call for Me if I don’t want to make noise and draw attention to myself.
Maybe she didn’t have her phone and was too scared leave the room
Maybe? I’ve considered this, but what college-aged girl sleeps with her phone out of the room, as the affidavit said she was sleeping? There’s always the possibility this could be the case, I can’t deny that possibility. I just don’t find it probable.
Maybe she did call. We only know about the unresponsive person call! Maybe there was a call but nothing was done.
I think we owe them the benefit of the doubt in this one! Definitely confusing, but it’s because we don’t have all the info yet. They shared just enough to get approval for a warrant. Fair to think that the FBI/LE knows something we don’t that is keeping them from being confused about this the way we are.
yes this. hard to know how different people react to trauma. we like to think they would do what we *think* we would do in that situation but we really don’t know without being in it ourselves, or having experienced all that they have.
I don't think your response is to go back to bed as if everything was normal though. 🤷♀️
what if it is though? as much as we want it not to be, closing our eyes to a scary uncomfortable situation and hoping it wasn’t real is not that unusual of a response. we are trying to make sense of a terrifying scenario with our logical thinking brain, but at 4am and possibly after a night of drinking, the logical thinking brain that resolves to call the police at the first sign of trouble is likely not activated. Going into fight, flight or freeze mode looks different for everyone.
I appreciate your comments on here, Meg, and I agree! Also, some comments suggest it may not have been weird to see people coming and going at that house, and that a ski mask isn’t that odd in Idaho. Maybe her immediate reaction was to shock, but then when he left and she didn’t hear any screams, etc, she rationalized it in her brain. Or simply passed out because it was 4am and she was drunk. Or maybe she wasn’t shocked at all and it wasn’t until she was interviewed by police that she processed the shock, or felt the need to say she was in shock. The weird part is the next morning when they called a friend thinking someone had passed out. But even then, a trauma response could’ve been that they couldn’t imagine or process such a violent scene.
Grew up in Idaho. NO ONE wears a ski mask unless they are skiing or committing a crime. Lol.
It wasn't a ski mask. The affidavit states it was a mask "covering the mouth and nose". So, like a covid mask
I agree. Unfortunately, no one knows what they would do in a situation like this. I feel like I would call the police but who knows. Fear makes us all react differently. Some people are saying Dylan has PTSD from childhood trauma so that may have played a part in her reaction.
In college, had I been drinking a lot, listened again and didn’t hear anything (and not wanted to knock on roommates door if they were asleep or someone had a guest in there) ... I think mine would have been to go back to sleep. Never in a million years would I have thought what happened couldve occurred.
There was a visualization of something that was completely strange and out of the ordinary.. that’s what gets me.
It was so late/early in the morning it seems likely they’d been partying. All sorts of substance combos would cause visualizations so imo that would make one second guess themself
I don’t think there was anything “normal” in that house. They were college kids partying like college kids do, keeping strange hours with old and new friends. I can imagine being alarmed but rationalizing a stranger in her home even at that late hour. I can also imagine being afraid enough to lock your door but talking yourself out of a “worst case scenario”.
There is also probably things not released. He very well could have threatened her, knocked her out, or said he was coming back. We don’t have all the facts and people keep reaching with this, when the focus should be on Bryan.
This is where I am stuck. Even if I was afraid to make any noise or if I was horrified of what I might find if I left the room- why wasn’t she texting anyone she was afraid? Or maybe she was and we don’t know?? I for one would be texting my bff or sister or mother that there was a MASKED INTRUDER! Why didn’t SOMEONE alert authorities if they ran into a masked man exiting the house?
I don’t want to come off as bashing the roommate(s), they are also victims. I just don’t understand.
She may have been frozen in terror. I agree it was a very long time but we did not experience what she did. I once was woken up by a girl screaming in our apartment building garage and the freeze that took over my body was unexplainable. I couldn't move and still remember it 25 years later. . That is nothing compared to what the roommate experienced. I’d like to hear a psychologists opinion on how/why this happens to some people. It’s all so sad!
I’m hoping there’s a reason they aren’t reporting further details about the roommate because there have to be more. She certainly wasn’t so ‘drunk or high’ that she forgot his bushy eyebrows. Sus.
The purpose of the document was to provide enough info to prove a warrant is needed. The doc doesn’t say what she does after seeing BK, likely because it wasn’t relevant to the document given it’s purpose. More will come out, this is just the very tip of the iceberg.
Maybe she is on the spectrum
A similar thing happened to my Aunt. A short time after her husband passed away from cancer she awoke to a man sitting on the age of her bed. She woke up and saw him but at first thought it was her late husband visiting her. But at the same time felt scared and an uncomfortable presence. She closed her eyes tight and pretended to be asleep and eventually fell back to sleep. A short time later there was an article in her local paper about a man in a flannel shirt (what he was wearing in her bedroom) breaking in to peoples home and sitting on the edge of their beds while they slept. It wasn’t until then that she realized it was a stranger in her room that night! But just goes to show it is a normal response to freeze in fear and just hide/hope nothing happens or allow your mind to make sense of it (her telling herself it was her late husband visiting her!)
I keep thinking this too, why didnt this witness call someone. But then I remember: all this happened around 4-4:30am. Im not making a call and speaking out loud if someone is in my house like that. And there's not a single person I could text at 4am whose going to be awake to get that text. Or if they are its bc theyre already up in the shower getting ready for work. Granted Im not a college student
My heart goes out to her though, I'm sure she's feeling all of the emotions as well as getting blamed for not doing enough.
And, how was she to know if there wasn't a second or third intruder inside. I can't imagine her fear, but if I was ever in that position, I hope that I could have called or sent a text to someone. Even if she dialed 911 but didn't say anything, someone would reach out.
I really want to assume that she was either drunk or high or both and really wasn’t able to tell what was real and what was the weed/alcohol playing tricks on her. I truly think she saw something creepy, didn’t know what to make of it and then absolutely passed out in her bed. Woke up and realized that creepy thing she saw while drunk/high wasn’t a bad dream and then called.
I also think living in a college house like this where a lot of people are coming and going, staying up late and coming home drunk explains a lot. Seeing a stranger in your house when you have multiple roommates who all are living this lifestyle and go out to bars isn’t nearly as outlandish as if a stranger was to walk into your family home.
I had an intruder wake me up when I was 21 in my bed, we had a party that night and instead of screaming I stared at him so confused because I wasn’t sure if he was a guest from the party, what time it was etc. She of course didn’t realize murders had just occurred, and was probably extremely confused/startled. I totally agree with your comment.
I gotta say, I’ve been drunk and high at the same time and still pretty much had my wits about me. Also, adrenaline would’ve kicked in and sobered her up. However, I’m not blaming that girl at all. Have no idea how I’d react. We are all different.
I understand the questions, but remember, DM was asleep for approximately 2 hours and was awakened by what she thought was Kaylee playing upstairs with her dog. We are assuming DM had her phone in her room, she may not have. The affidavit is only giving enough information to get the arrest warrant, more details will come out.
She may have been texting the roommates and when she didn't get a response after seeing the masked man it further freaked her out. When a traumatic event happens your brain tries to protect you, it shuts down in a way, it's a trauma response.
The whole thing is so sad, the most obvious, four young adults lost their lives, but just as heartbreaking is, the two surviving roommates will be tortured for the rest of their lives. I hope DM is getting the help she needs. Her testimony will be key in holding BK accountable.
Exactly, your brain tries to protect you by coming up with the most realistic situation possible. No one’s going to automatically think, oh, murderer bc that’s not normal.
Wait there's a dog, no I can't hear more
It was a known party house where people came and went. She might of thought he was s friend of one of her roommates and was leaving. Wearing a mask is no big deal since Covid.
Absolutely it was most likely too late to save them but what reason could you ever have for not calling 911 immediately
She could have been completely frozen in shock
Sure. I am not judging just wondering what happened between seeing him and calling for help.
Not judging because we don’t have all the facts but it is so hard to understand. Whatever concern she had caused her to go to the door 3 times ~ including all the things she had heard up to that point. Heartbreaking to think they could have had some help. It’s honestly one of the pieces of information I wish I did not know.
Yes! Or try calling your roommates?! Texting them to see if they are ok etc etc
Yes, and wouldn't you want to check on your roomies after seeing an intruder??
I’m with you on this one. That isn’t adding up to me. I know we aren’t getting the full story, but if a man I don’t know is walking out of my house at 4am (even if it’s a “party house”) - I’m going to check on my roommates / the house / are the doors locked? I don’t know. ESPECIALLY after stating she heard low chatter in the house.
And wouldn’t he have been covered in blood and carrying a knife? Maybe it was too dark?
But it was dark and he was wearing black. Probably couldn’t tell.
What about Maddie’s last post on Tik Tok 2 weeks before the video? Dylan in a Halloween costume with the audio of you’re a F ing liar, manipulative? And didn’t Xana’s dad come 2 weeks before the murders to change her bedroom locks? Is that not bizarre?
I think we’ll get more details later. I’m wondering if she was intoxicated from going out earlier and wasn’t thinking straight.
She remembers too much for being drunk don’t you think? I remember this weird man and his build and his black clothes and his mask and his bushy eyebrows at 4am. I also remember someone crying and someone else talking about helping them. But I was too drunk to go out and check on anyone for another 9+ hours. I dunno.
She may have a photographic memory. She might have saw him and not registered what is going on but when reflecting on the event can still picture the man. This is how my memory works.
I agree that she remembers too much for being intoxicated. If she was too intoxicated, I'm not sure how the police could use her statement as a reliable witness.
It was known to be a party house and people coming in and out. So she could have thought this stranger was a friend of one of her roommates leaving.
I read almost all of the affidavit and I'm also struck by the fact that the murderer (who I do believe IS the suspect Kohlberger!) walked past DM. I wonder if he did NOT see her. But if DM heard so much and saw him, why DID she wait to call? We have to hear the rest of this story. Was she that terrified? Or have the police not been honest in the reports hoping to throw off the killer? I read the affidavit quickly, but thought I read that the police were called earlier than we have been told and came to the scene earlier. I need to read it again. It is very impressive that they - authorities -were able to keep so much under wraps till they had plenty to hang him with. If they had told the public more sooner, as the public begged, they would not have this mountain of evidence
Maybe she thought it was only a burglar- and he was leaving- it’s all so crazy. They aren’t giving all the evidence either- I believe this is just enough to get the arrest warrant.
I totally agree. They are holding some stuff back, and now they are all under a gag order.
I don't think he saw her. Her room was right off the kitchen, wouldn't even look like a bedroom is there. She might have just had the door cracked and it was dark and he was likely on an adrenaline high from that and just tunnel visioned to the glass door.
I just don’t understand the delay in calling the police. She heard something and she SAW something - an intruder!! For God’s sake, you know your cell phone is attached to your hip! Call the freaking police!
It’s confusing, but I’m giving the benefit of the doubt there’s more to the story. We’re just missing the puzzle pieces that help it make sense. I think they intentionally left out what happened after she saw BK.
I agree!!! Why the delay??? They are saying the public may never know what that delay was about
Maybe she fainted or freaked out after locking the door to her room, or charges her phone outside her room or something?
Or at least text your roommates? To make sure they’re ok??? I’m baffled and clearly there is a lot we don’t know.
This! After being woken up 2-3 times to weird instances and then seeing a masked someone leave. I would definitely be sending a group message. Maybe she did and we just don’t know? So so strange.
For me, it's all of it pulled together. The roommate saw an intruder, heard crying, and calls 7 hours later only after phoning friends. Then the initial call reports a possibly unconscious individual, but in the meantime blood is literally leaking out of the wall. I have all the sympathy for them, what a terrible experience. It just is a series of odd events.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/university-idaho-murders-blood-seen-oozing-house-amid-reports-previous-threat
Scroll all the way down
There were pictures posted, it was leaking down the outside wall!
So the story about calling about an unconscious person...I read that the roommates found their deceased roommates after they woke up that morning, ran out of the house in shock/fear and called 911 but people walking by ended up having to help talk to 911 on the phone because the girls were in such shock and inconsolable state...and that’s why the caller said unconscious.
There is an interview with one of the girls parents where the father says 2 of the girls weren’t killed the same way. Is it possible that one appeared to just be unconscious ?
No. I think he meant that one sustained worse/more injuries than the other. I believe the unconscious person was the roommate in shock trying to call police n
Yeah the unconscious part is weird to me. These kids were stabbed many times, they were clearly dead. Why call and say they are unconscious?
The unconscious person was the surviving roommate who passed out on shock. She was seen outside on the ground and was called in as a person unconscious, not anyone who had been murdered
Where are you getting this information?
Been following the case since the very beginning and this is what’s been said multiple times by many sources. Surviving roommate, DM, ran out of the house in panic and fainted. Someone who was by used her phone to call 911 and reported her unconscious. Call wasn’t actually made about the murders. Police encountered upon arrival. It’s all so wild and has consumed me for the last month and a half. Those poor kids and their families are forever broken.
Because it wasn’t the roommate that spoke to them. The roommate called, passed out in the front of the house and the friend (not living in the house) finished the call with 911. Don’t think that person knew they were murdered.
Where did this come from? No way did everyone on that street keep quiet about this. There would have been an absolute spectacle out front that people would have seen at that time of day and someone would have spoken about it publicly.
It was on a news report, I read it also that the caller had passed out and her friend finished the call, google it
It was on a news report that I saw. And I don’t agree that it would be an absolute spectacle. It’s a college town where most kids are sleeping in and it is also winter. Not a ton of people outside. No one knew about the murders yet.
One of the victim’s fathers did an interview that supports the two surviving roommates had difficulty completing the 911 call. According to him, one roommate passed out and the other was hyperventilating and the dispatcher could not understand her. He did not confirm that someone else spoke to the dispatcher, but it can be assumed that someone mentioned the roommate that passed out while trying to describe everything and that is why the police/ambulance was dispatched as for an unconscious person.
I read that DM has a history of PTSD and childhood trauma that gives her nightmares still and she at first throught she was in a nightmare and was scared and locked herself in her bedroom. Maybe until it was light out to go check out of fear and she might have crashed at some point from the shock fatigue. None of us know how we would actually react and what we would do in her shoes. She must have been bone chilling horrified.
I also have a hunch she was in the dark or didn’t open the door enough for him to see her but she could see him. Combined with him maybe having tunnel vision to get out.
My theory is he could have been targeting Xana or Ethan but maybe didn’t know what floor they were on and went up to the third floor first and the girls were awake and so he had to kill them. And then went downstairs to xanas room and then left out the sliding door on the same floor from there- walking past DM on the way. I keep thinking about the order and what the connection could be but I keep thinking of what Kaylee’s dad was saying that “he didn’t have to go upstairs”. I go back and forth on the order.
Bottom line. The whole timeline and thought of what these kids went through sends chills up my spine every time I think about it.
Could it be that DM was the unconscious one? That the other surviving roommate called about her because she passed out after what she heard/saw? Theory, but maybe after he left she did go up to see and found one of them and then passed out hence why the call didn’t happen till 6 hours later
I did see a 911 operator on tik tok day that sometimes they use the term unconscious when dispatching because they aren’t sure what the scene is. So even if the roommate didn’t say unconscious the dispatcher might have. I guess we won’t know until they release the call
I wonder if she thought one of her roommates met a guy at the bar and she just figured that was him leaving 🤷🏻♀️ Maybe she wasn’t frozen or whatever she said but just creeped out bc he looked creepy.
College houses are weird. People in and out, many you don't know but others do. She might have thought it was someone leaving after seeing a roommate. Plus she was likely intoxicated and half asleep. She was probably freaked out but didn't wanna overreact by calling the cops.
The cell phone tracking is so wild, they can tell that he visited the house at least 12 times prior to the murder?? But he only turned his location off/phone off/airplane mode the night of the murder, how would he not think to do it previously?
The brief relationship is false story!
Because he’s not as smart as he thinks he is 😉 over confident, under prepared
This.....!
Yessss! Someone who studied that much criminal justice and yet left the knife sheath behind. He’s not that savvy it seems.
I’m wondering if that’s why he went back the next morning at 9am... to try to find the knife sheath 👀
Creepy!! I didn’t think of this one. 👀
I have seen on many other true crime shows/read books they talk about murderers commonly drive by or insert themselves in the investigation which is equally as creepy and awful.
Did he go back?
Yes shortly after 900am. Probably gloating internally. Sick POS.
Or to see if police had arrived.
It was really strange...in one of the Facebook groups about this case there is/was a member named Papa Roger. People believe it was actually Brian. The photo even looks like it could be Brian using one of those AI apps. He started many strange conversations. One that I saw was an argument with someone about possible dna that could have been left behind. The person he was arguing with suggested the murderer could have left the knife sheath behind with dna. Papa Roger became irritated by this comment and questioned how anyone could make the assumption a sheath was used. Knowing now that this is the reality it is all very eerie.
I just read about the FB group and Papa Roger. The article I read also said Papa was asking similar (or same) Q’s as the Reddit questionnaire which got people thinking .... 🧐
I was reading about the Reddit questions, but I can’t make much of that only because of my own personal experience with online college classes, especially in psychology and helping my husband through his own criminology degree.
Professors would have me post questionnaires or send them out to emails and then use the results for an assignment or class discussion. So I can see this being the case with his phd work in criminology. But it’s not lost on me how creepy it is that he studied this and then went on to commit murders!!!
That’s really interesting about the Papa Roger info, i will have to hop onto Facebook and check out discussions on there. So strange!! I wouldn’t be shocked by this behavior though.
Where is this FB group?
I think the real question now would be is someone still commenting from that account 👀 if so he could have handed it off but I doubt it. This guy didn’t seem like the type that would have ‘followers’ per say. The comment about the knife sheath is interesting though..... unless that was a bit of leaked information I have to wonder where/how that got out or if it was just a good bit of guessing.
The account has not been active since he was detained. Also it has now been removed or suspended (not sure of the right terminology here) and people are speculating the police did it because it’s an account connected to him and I guess that’s a common thing to deactivate criminals accounts when they are being investigated. 🤷🏻♀️
Fascinating. It’s either legitimately connected to him or was widely reported as him and they decided to take it down out of caution…… maybe we’ll find out as the once progresses
Unless he wanted to get caught...
Also a creepy thought
He didn’t study forensics he studied criminology which is the minds of the killers.
**criminology (sorry my bad. I understand the difference, as my husband got his degree in one and not the other) and I’m a huge Criminal Minds fan. Does this apply- not even a little, but my apology for the error.
Sorry if it came off rude. Wasn’t meant that way. I was just clarifying because it would make more sense why he was sloppy with him a evidence and phones and driving by. Sorry if it came off rude.
It’s all good, I’m sorry too. I think I had too many crazies contact me on Facebook Market today trying to sell a stroller, and I forgot that this is a place to share ideas and thoughts minus the nonsense, so my apologies.
But you’re right, I was just saying to someone that it is wild to think that he could imagine getting away with it based on his degree in “cloud forensics”. But as another commenter said- hubris.
No worries, I think he was super arrogant and maybe a little over cocky. It does seem like he should have known better still to be less sloppy. However things get messy in 4 murders in 20 minutes. I’m curious to find out more details of what the police know. Was he really targeting all four or were some just collateral damage. Did he see the other roommate and leave her alive on purpose or did he not even see her?
YES!!!
Pure Hubris!
I’m not 100% certain but I’m sure I heard/read/kids told me via TikTok content (?) that Kohberger previously had some sort of brief relationship with one of the victims so, maybe he didn’t need to or think to turn the phone off on the previous occasions b/c he was legitimately visiting the house (?)
Getting info from tik tok content is the first problem.
You’re probably right ... I had a conversation with my kids who happen to use tik tok. This is a forum to discuss the case, not to know all the answers. Please be kind.
We have to be careful about spreading misinformation. That is different than discussing. Don’t take it personally please.
How is that different than getting information here? Don’t undermine non-mainstream news sources.
Sadly, not everyone is as thorough as Jessica in their coverage and I don’t consider tiktokers valid non-mainstream media sources. As you can see with the example that she heard misinformation that one of the murdered girls dated BK. Many people playing arm chair detective on sm just jump to conclusions based on their feelings and not facts. That’s dangerous when we are talking about 4 kids being murdered and it shows the dumbing down of society.
If I recall correctly, it was with the help of social media “arm chair detectives” and “speculators” that they solved the Gabby Petito murder. It’s how they found the video footage of their white van parked and knew the location to look and find her body. So, agree to disagree that speculation is always harmful. Also, pretty sure Jessica’s audience here enjoys a good speculation.
And social media arm chair detectives also basically helped the police solve the Luka Magnotta serial killings (documentary: Don't F*ck With Cats)
No it was two youtube travelers that filmed their travels that saw the van on their footage. They weren’t arm chair detectives, just travel youtubers like gabby was.
And in her defense, she said she didnt know if it was true.... we are just specuulating from what we read/seen already.
Agreed! Plenty of great information on TikTok about these murders. Some media sources are just now starting to talk about this since an affidavit is available. A lot of what’s on there has already been shared til now from these “non-mainstream” sources.
If true maybe that’s why DM didn’t call police quickly? Maybe she thought it was a guy who had hooked up with a roommate?
Yeah I thought the same thing. Or perhaps something outlandish like she thought he was a "customer"? I know it's out there and I don't want to speculate something negative but it doesn't make sense why they wouldn't release the info about the delay in the call the police. Makes me think it could be information that is negative against the victims
You’re not alone....I had the exact same thought. You never know.
I definitely think there would be some truth to this. It doesn’t sound like they had been home that long and if DM heard one of the girls say ‘I think someone’s here’ or something to that effect DM could have later thought it was a friend or hookup leaving the house. She may have just noticed what he looked like but if she was sleepy or drunk she could have easily passed back out after seeing him. She might have even talked herself out of calling the cops because she didn’t want to make something out of nothing. Only to panic, realize her mistake, and pass out when she saw what happened.
The affidavit stated that criminals will often forget to turn off or leave cell phones when they’re casing a location because when they’re casing they aren’t actually committing a crime
They can tell he hit at a cell tower near the home.
There’s no perfect murder…thankfully!
Doesn’t make sense why the delayed call to cops....
I think we owe them the benefit of the doubt in this one! Definitely confusing, but it’s because we don’t have all the info yet. They shared just enough to get approval for a warrant. Fair to think that the FBI/LE knows something we don’t that is keeping them from being confused about this the way we are.
I want to know how he targeted them. It seems connected to Sig Chi especially if you look at the call he made to that podcast..BUT also was it all 4 or just 1 of them he targeted..we know he stalked them and that house on 12 different occasions..
Do we know for sure it was him who called in to the podcast? I remember hearing that but can’t remember where ..if it was a valid source.
An old friend of his said the voice on the podcast sounded just like him. Obviously not confirmed but that’s what the friend said
He was a vegan and K and M worked at a Greek restaurant that pulls up first on google when you search for vegan dining options. I think he was stalking one of them. Remember at the time of the murders people said K had a stalker?
I think so too! Early on they said one of the girls had a stalker and the police discounted it probably as not to tip off the killer. I think the kids knew him. What if he was there for one of them and didn’t expect them to be in the room together- and then ran into X as he was exiting and then had to kill her and her bf.Maybe when the roommate saw him she just thought the creeper is here bc maybe he came around some and they knew he was obsessed with one of the girls but thought he was harmless. I saw a news interview that said he was likely an incel (involuntary celibate) bc he could not establish long term relationships with women that resulted in intimacy. Wonder what his on-line behaviors will show? Porn? And creepy inappropriate messages? Dating app? This is all so crazy and terrifying.
Wow I hadn’t heard that he was stalking her prior. Seems weird then that the roommate didn’t do anything when she saw him. Did she not realize it was the stalker cause of his mask? Maybe.
What’s the podcast all about? I’ve missed that piece I think!
What is the call to the podcast?
They think he called into a local podcast. The audio was so strange. He said he had 10 different frat brothers (from Ethan’s frat) ask him randomly at different times how to get away with the perfect murder. The host was super sketched out by him.
So creepy. So he was trying to build up the story that the frat was involved?
Something like that it seems
If you are assuming she was afraid because he’d just murdered her roommates then yes it doesn’t make sense. However this was a bit of a party house, many people lived there. It probably wasn’t that unusual to have people come and go, to hear weird things. She was probably drunk, sees a dude walk by that creeped her out, went into her room locked her door and passed out. I just can’t get myself to believe she was paralyzed with fear in her room for hours because she thought the guy she saw had just murdered her roommates. That makes no logical sense to me.
You’re right! I’m sure she just thought it was a random dude and then made the connection after realizing what happened to her roommates the next morning.
I read an article earlier that said she suffered from PTSD (something in her past I assume) and had nightmares and thought she might be having a nightmare? Not sure if that’s factual, I can’t remember the source of the article.
I think you’re right. People are looking at her experience through a lens of knowing the outcome. She didn’t know the outcome when she saw him. She knew what usually happens in the house, she knew what she heard. That’s it.
Just saying it seems odd. Didn’t place blame on anyone
I agree it’s all very odd, just trying to rationalize it. I thinks it’s even more odd that he walked past a live eye witness. Maybe his adrenaline was going and he didn’t even see her ?!
I think it’s very likely that at least the cops didn’t think he noticed her. It seems like that would be a reason to hold back that there were any witnesses until the arrest was made. If he knew someone saw him, even with a partial description they could have feared the murderer would try to find them.
Clearly it was odd the call came in late and now we have details that she’d light it could go beyond just being shocked and drunk or hungover
All of it is mind blowing, he just walked right by her like she wasn't even there? He makes me sick and he will get what's coming to him. I'm surprised after she saw him and he left that she didn't check if everyone else was okay, I'm sure she was in shock but I wonder if we will ever know why she didn't call for so many hours later. All of it just insane and he's twisted and has the coldest eyes.
My only thoughts on the delay in calling was that DM was in shock and inebriated. What if what was seen was thought to be a figment of their own imagination, etc? Seems like a reach, but you just never know.
I’m baffled by the roommate. Prior to reading the affidavit, I didn’t think much of the roommate other than probably blacked out drunk, passed out…Now I’m like “why didn’t you at least text your roommates after hearing all of the commotion, seeing a masked intruder, the fear?” There’s got to be so much we still don’t know.
She might’ve done just that, who knows! They never expanded on what she did after seeing him as it probably wasn’t relevant to requesting the approval for a warrant
1) it's a party house so lots of people would be hanging out intermittently. Strangers friends etc, esp on weekends
2) The mask was not a full face mask— it is described as a mouth and nose mask. The same kind we wear for Covid.
3) She said she thought the noises might have been playing with the dog or social talking.
I'm shocked she didn't hear screaming, though, and that it didn't sound like something was very, very wrong ...
I didn’t previously realize that the mask was a Covid-style mask. When they mentioned mask I went straight to ski mask out of sheer instinct (creepy murder = creepy ski mask obviously)
The Covid mask makes a big difference to me when discussing being able to identify someone to me.
I agree with the screaming. In the report it seems like there was 2 victims near each other. Maybe I read it wrong but, wouldn’t someone hear something in the house a little more that crying
I think the victims never had a chance to scream. The weapon used would cause massive damage very quickly.
Maybe she did and we just don’t know
Exactly ... I don’t get it ... I would 1000 percent be txt my friends regardless of my trauma... I would be txt them bc of ... some thing is not right...
The roommates had all been out partying and drinking--I think this has to be factored into the remaining roommates’ actions and reactions. E.g., “Maybe I just imagined seeing someone?”
Or, she goes in, locks the door, lies down to listen, and falls asleep. If drunk, this might explain the long time lapse.
this very type of thought crossed my mind as well. if she was still a bit drunk and hadn’t slept much yet, then woke up to the sound of distant crying, saw something that scared her so froze and withdrew back to her room it’s not inconceivable that she fell asleep
I read an article earlier that said she suffered from PTSD (something in her past I assume) and had nightmares and thought she might be having a nightmare? Not sure if that’s factual, I can’t remember the source of the article.
My stomach aches with each new detail in this case. I cannot wait to hear his ‘story’ to justify all of his whereabouts that are accounted for. I’m so interested to hear the motive which won’t be released until the trial I’m guessing.As for the roommate not reporting sooner, I have many theories. Can’t wait to hear how not random these victims were. So sad and disturbing.